Very large DIY bioactive build

[SAYiWONT30]

Hey guys I'm new being a chameleon owner and have been doing a ton of reading lately. I'm looking to build a large enclosure in the next few months and slowly I'm sure lol. I'm not very good at at designing and building but I can get along ok. I want to build a 8ft long 7ft tall and 2ft deep enclosure with the top and right side mesh. The left side would be closed bc I want to build in a cabinet. Hopefully my bad drawing may help understand what I'm looking to due. I'm wanting to be as cost effective as I can but will spend more if needed to achieve my goals. Plumbing is a big concern i was thinking of a pump and i can run a hose out the door and pump out water just not sure how to do that correctly. Also not sure what materials I can use that are safe. Any comments from anyone who has built something similar and issues they have seen that I can be aware of would be appreciated. I have a young veiled chameleon (from petsmart, I did not know any better till now) not sure of age due to that.

 

[SAYiWONT30]

I would like to make the front doors slide in a track but wasnt sure on the difficulty to accomplish a clean look without anything obscuring the view from the front

 

[Ares05]

Okay, before we go crazy- was she sleeping in that pic or closing her eyes during the day? Sleeping/eye closing during the day is a big sign of sickness.

Could you fill this out for me? Be accurate and try not to skip any questions. Include pictures of your whole setup along with more pictures of her.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[cyberlocc]

Cant wait to see, subbing to this .

What materials did you have in Mind? I seen you have some ideas written down. I am going to say dont use PVC sheet, at least not Alone.
There is a "Forex Build" that could use PVC and be fine, the price will be magnitudes higher than just using wood, but I can give you the run down if you want.

 

[SAYiWONT30]

I planned on a wood frame and thought maybe pvc backing would be better than wood. I knew I could coat the wood so it would be water resistant but not sure what the price would be to coat all the wood. Also not sure what was safe to coat the wood.

I would love to see the run down of that build.

 

[SAYiWONT30]

Okay, before we go crazy- was she sleeping in that pic or closing her eyes during the day? Sleeping/eye closing during the day is a big sign of sickness.

Could you fill this out for me? Be accurate and try not to skip any questions. Include pictures of your whole setup along with more pictures of her.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

Yes he was sleeping. It was nighttime we were getting ready for bed and had the bedroom lights on for a min

 

[Ares05]

Post some pics of his current cage at the very least, if possible. Petstore employees are known to give out wrong information.


Also following this thread, intrigued on how the build will go!

 

[SAYiWONT30]

This is not an ideal setup I'm working with what I have at the moment. I have an Arcadia 6% with a daylight bulb from todd at light your reptiles. It's about 7 inches from his basking spot and a 75 watt repti basking bulb.

 

[SAYiWONT30]

I went with what the store employee said for like a day and then I read alot of posts here and everywhere possible on the net on care and looking at everyone's setups from feeders, supplements, lighting, enclosures, watering, and plants.

 

[cyberlocc]

I planned on a wood frame and thought maybe pvc backing would be better than wood. I knew I could coat the wood so it would be water resistant but not sure what the price would be to coat all the wood. Also not sure what was safe to coat the wood.

I would love to see the run down of that build.

Okay, so 2 vastly different builds here .

The "Forex" Build:
More common in the EU, than the US, very very expensive, but will last, pretty much forever.

You build a frame, that will hold 1/4 thick panels, with this. https://eztube.com/product-category/tubes/aluminum-extrusions/

While doing so, I wouldn't trust a 8ft panel, or even 6'/7' in the back, so run a cross beam down the center of the cage area in the back, where you can use 2 panels.

I would use 2 pieces of HDPE as the bottom, or even better 1/2" piece, with a route cut in to go around the groove.

The frame has sliding glass door track options, so that is also covered . I would get some Nylon Slips that sit into the track for the doors to slide. I ran into that, with my cage. I got Alu track, and the glass doors did not want to slide easily, I have since found better tracks with the slips, but I think you can buy the slip material. So on the sliding door track, plan to use the "top track" on both top and bottom, and find a Nylon slip that will cut the height in half for the bottom one and allow the doors to slide.


The "Wood" Build:
Easy, just like building a cabinet. Couple sheets of Plywood, and maybe some framing as this is pretty large. 1x3 framing would likely be sufficient, 1x4s if your worried.

To seal it, you got a few good options. I would go with one of these,
Marine Expoxy: LONG curing/off gassing time, longest lasting, sturdiest,
Sweetwater Epoxy: Semi short Medium Curing/Off gassing time, designed for Plywood Aquariums so 100% safe after the directed time frames
Pond Armor: Really short off gassing time, contains no VOCs, very thick and hard to work with, but can be thinned (with VOCs lol) Touted as fish safe for Koi Ponds, so again safe quickly. Semi rubbery when dry, so less prone to stress cracks, than the other 2, still can/will crack.

All of above will stress crack on subpar seams. So you need to ensure rigidity in the seams, and then its helpful to use Fiberglass Matte, or Cloth in them and use your chosen product as the Resin. This will add strength and rigidity to the seams as well, which is especially good for the soil bin.

I seen your pond liner bottom idea, Id scrap that for Flex seal, and you can flex seal the soil bin after you sealed with above methods as well as a extra JIC. The issue with pond liner is, it has to be mechanically fastened and water can and will get in between the liner and the water, unless its glued in very well with like contact cement, by the time you did that and did it right, you spent more time and money than just using flex seal, so just use flex seal.


In either case, doors are going to be a very expensive part. I have found a cheaper way, with the wood build is to use a "Shower Door" some of those are cheaper than buying glass that size. Buying 1 off glass, always cost more than mass cut pieces.

 

[SAYiWONT30]

Thought I posted a pic of his current setup earlier. Here it is

 

[Ares05]

Only thing id say is the little dual thermometer guages are normally very inaccurate. You would want a digital one.

Why is the basking light so high up? What are your basking spot temps?

 

[SAYiWONT30]

Basking varies with the day I try to keep it around 85 to 90. Waiting to get a herpstat to control my heat

 

[Ares05]

You will want it more around 85. Other than that, looks fine. Cant wait for the enclosure build.

One last thing, make sure not to run the humidifier during the day for it. Only at night.

 

[SAYiWONT30]

Okay, so 2 vastly different builds here .

The "Forex" Build:
More common in the EU, than the US, very very expensive, but will last, pretty much forever.

You build a frame, that will hold 1/4 thick panels, with this. https://eztube.com/product-category/tubes/aluminum-extrusions/

While doing so, I wouldn't trust a 8ft panel, or even 6'/7' in the back, so run a cross beam down the center of the cage area in the back, where you can use 2 panels.

I would use 2 pieces of HDPE as the bottom, or even better 1/2" piece, with a route cut in to go around the groove.

The frame has sliding glass door track options, so that is also covered . I would get some Nylon Slips that sit into the track for the doors to slide. I ran into that, with my cage. I got Alu track, and the glass doors did not want to slide easily, I have since found better tracks with the slips, but I think you can buy the slip material. So on the sliding door track, plan to use the "top track" on both top and bottom, and find a Nylon slip that will cut the height in half for the bottom one and allow the doors to slide.


The "Wood" Build:
Easy, just like building a cabinet. Couple sheets of Plywood, and maybe some framing as this is pretty large. 1x3 framing would likely be sufficient, 1x4s if your worried.

To seal it, you got a few good options. I would go with one of these,
Marine Expoxy: LONG curing/off gassing time, longest lasting, sturdiest,
Sweetwater Epoxy: Semi short Medium Curing/Off gassing time, designed for Plywood Aquariums so 100% safe after the directed time frames
Pond Armor: Really short off gassing time, contains no VOCs, very thick and hard to work with, but can be thinned (with VOCs lol) Touted as fish safe for Koi Ponds, so again safe quickly. Semi rubbery when dry, so less prone to stress cracks, than the other 2, still can/will crack.

All of above will stress crack on subpar seams. So you need to ensure rigidity in the seams, and then its helpful to use Fiberglass Matte, or Cloth in them and use your chosen product as the Resin. This will add strength and rigidity to the seams as well, which is especially good for the soil bin.

I seen your pond liner bottom idea, Id scrap that for Flex seal, and you can flex seal the soil bin after you sealed with above methods as well as a extra JIC. The issue with pond liner is, it has to be mechanically fastened and water can and will get in between the liner and the water, unless its glued in very well with like contact cement, by the time you did

Thankyou for the input. I have alot to decide on lol

 

[Sammy Grigio]

The best piece of advice I can give you is to be absolutely spot on with your plumbing. Diagram it, visualize it and triple check the viability of every single part that could let water out. With a project this big, you really wouldn't want to see all of your hard work negated by water damage. The feeling is horrible and more so is it's reality. I learned the very hard way. Consult with a friend that knows construction well. Even better if you have a friend that's a plumber. Take the plumbing very seriously. You will be very sad if you don't.

 

[SAYiWONT30]

I'm really liking the "forex" build but my thought is how deep should I make the drainage layer and will I need to drain that eventually?

 

[cyberlocc]

I'm really liking the "forex" build but my thought is how deep should I make the drainage layer and will I need to drain that eventually?

Depends heavily on your setup. What kind of drainage layer, how much water can it hold (the drainage area). How much do you mist, how deep is your substrate.

I have drains built in to my Large Bio viv, not a single drop has ever came out. I use an insane amount of water too. 8 MK nozzles, 8 Mins a day. However I have plants that go through alot of water, and 7 inches of soil.

The drains are setup to drain every drop of water that goes in there. However, not a drop does. Mine was mostly a fail safe, especially as my setup is connected to main RO system now.

When I was testing it, a 5 gallon bucket lasted 2-3 days, and not a drip ever came out.

I would still make an emergency drainage option however. Easy way, run a 1 inch pvc pipe in the front corner of the Viv, down into the drainage layer, You can use any pump, or siphon to remove water if you need to. In a perfectly working Bio Viv, you shouldn't ever need to drain anything.

Also if you do the Forex Build, I wouldn't use PVC sheet, you can and people do, but its not very rigid, its very prone to breaking if hit by something, it can and does warp under heat, your not dealing with that thick of walls. I would use HDPE, it costs more, but not that much and is a vastly better material.

Oh and for fun, a EZ Tube Birdcage (not mine, its from their site)

 

[SAYiWONT30]

Depends heavily on your setup. What kind of drainage layer, how much water can it hold (the drainage area). How much do you mist, how deep is your substrate.

I have drains built in to my Large Bio viv, not a single drop has ever came out. I use an insane amount of water too. 8 MK nozzles, 8 Mins a day. However I have plants that go through alot of water, and 7 inches of soil.

The drains are setup to drain every drop of water that goes in there. However, not a drop does. Mine was mostly a fail safe, especially as my setup is connected to main RO system now.

When I was testing it, a 5 gallon bucket lasted 2-3 days, and not a drip ever came out.

I would still make an emergency drainage option however. Easy way, run a 1 inch pvc pipe in the front corner of the Viv, down into the drainage layer, You can use any pump, or siphon to remove water if you need to. In a perfectly working Bio Viv, you shouldn't ever need to drain anything.

Also if you do the Forex Build, I wouldn't use PVC sheet, you can and people do, but its not very rigid, its very prone to breaking if hit by something, it can and does warp under heat, your not dealing with that thick of walls. I would use HDPE, it costs more, but not that much and is a vastly better material.

Oh and for fun, a EZ Tube Birdcage (not mine, its from their site)

Ok I like the pvc pipe in front idea. Aslo how did you setup the MK to your RO system? I was planning 18 inches of sunshine mix #4 with some charcoal mixed in.
As for the sides and back the HDPE looks like a better option for sure. And I may try to from the front in a way so I dont need 5ft tall glass but maybe 4ft or less.

 

[SAYiWONT30]

Also not sure what drainage layer to use yet