Veiled Male or Female?

[Daydrmbelievr80]

Just to check that your husbandry is not affecting her could you fill this out? I am new to chameleon keeping to but did a lot of research and feel like I know my husbandry. But hopefully someone with longer experience like @MissSkittles or @elizaann2 will look over it too.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Female veiled chameleon. PetSmart told.us she was almost a year old by based on her size and coloring I think she's more likely around 6 or 7 months. We have had her fot about 2 weeks.
• Handling - I've held.her once since we got her, for maybe a minite. Trying yo give her space to fully adjust to her new surroundings.
• Feeding - 7-8 med/latge crickets gutloaded with fruit and veggies (apples and green leaf lettuve right now). Planning to get some dubia this week to add some variety.

• Supplements - Pangea Cal Calcium with no D3 dusted on her feeders every feeding, Reptivite multivitamin for twice a month.
• Watering - Hand misting twice a day, morning and night. She has a small bowl of water we change daily and we have seen her drink off of her plants tqice so far.
• Fecal Description - white to yellow then brown, gooey consistency. Seemed normal?
• History - Recently purchased from PetSmart.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - ZooMed Reptibreeze XL. 2x2x4 screen.
• Lighting - 12 hours on 12 hours off on a timer. ReptiSun UVB 5.0 light bar and Pangea Halogen 50w heat bulb
• Temperature - Basking spot around 80, rest of enclosure ranges in 70s, drops to about 65 at night. Measured using a digital probe.
• Humidity - 45% during the day, 65% at night. Bought plastic sheeting today to get her night time humidity up over 80%.
• Plants - Live plants. She has a large umbrella plant, pothos, wax plant, and two prayer plants.
• Placement - My daughter's bedroom. Very low traffic area. Near a window but we keep the blinds shut.
• Location - Southern California

Current Problem - Newbie, just making sure we are getting things right.

 

[Paradalis]

Everything seems to be perfect! Your husbandry a sounds great! She probably won’t drink out of the water bowl though, but definitely off plants. And in her fecal description you said gooey, is it solid-ish or extremely watery?

 

[Paradalis]

Here are some sites that may be helpful if you ever run into trouble:

Chameleon Academy and YouTube

Neptune the Chameleon and YouTube

 

[elizaann2]

See my responses below in bold

• Your Chameleon - Female veiled chameleon. PetSmart told.us she was almost a year old by based on her size and coloring I think she's more likely around 6 or 7 months. We have had her fot about 2 weeks. You will need to make sure that you have a lay bin for her ASAP. Chameleons, like chickens, will lay eggs even without a male around. Without a proper lay bin she will become egg bound which is fatal. I'll attach a document to help you set up a lay bin for her.
• Handling - I've held.her once since we got her, for maybe a minite. Trying yo give her space to fully adjust to her new surroundings. Great job! Its hard to leave them alone because they are so cool and exciting but it is good to give her space and let her settle in. Chameleons are also very shy lizards and they do not like to be handled. View them more like a goldfish pet, they are a cool pet to take care of the environment and a cool pet to observe but its not a tactile pet. I only handle my chams when I need to remove them from their enclosure for deep cleaning, when I am doing a physical check or when I am taking them to the vet.
• Feeding - 7-8 med/latge crickets gutloaded with fruit and veggies (apples and green leaf lettuve right now). Planning to get some dubia this week to add some variety. Fantastic, as mentioned before, try smaller feeders. Nothing bigger than the distance between her eyes. Hopefully that 'star gazing' goes away with smaller feeders. If she truly is 6 or 7 months old I would suggest feeding her 3 smaller feeders every other day. Veiled chameleons tend to 'overcharge' when kept at higher temps and are feed a lot, for our veiled girls they will then produce a high number of eggs which is not only exhausting but also quite dangerous. Bugs you will want to continue to gut load as well. I'm attaching a document with other great staple feeder bugs as well as other items you can use for gut loads.
• Supplements - Pangea Cal Calcium with no D3 dusted on her feeders every feeding, Reptivite multivitamin for twice a month. Perfect with the Calcium! Does your Reptivite have D3? If not she will need this as well.
• Watering - Hand misting twice a day, morning and night. She has a small bowl of water we change daily and we have seen her drink off of her plants tqice so far. Good, you will want to mist in a schedule, misting just before lights come on in the morning so your girl has dew to drink from when she first wakes up and again just before lights turn off. I would also recommend installing a dripper sometime in the middle of the day, if you see her rush to drink, this is a sign that she is not getting enough and you need to up your hydration method to ensure she does not get dehydrated. If you can get your temps at 68 degrees or cooler at night I would also suggest fogging at night, this is an excellent way to keep your girl hydrated. I would remove the water bowl, chameleons do not recognize standing water as a drinking source and they tend to poo in them, also escaped feeders can get into the water which can create a breeding ground for bacteria. It is weird for us humans to be comfortable with the idea of not having a cup or some kind of similar drinking source but we have recently discovered that in the wild chameleon actually get their hydration in the early mornings when fog rolls in through the forest.
• Fecal Description - white to yellow then brown, gooey consistency. Seemed normal? Good, the white part is the urate, which is chameleon pee. The brown part is the fecal. You want the poo to be firm but hydrated if that makes sense. If its lose that could be cause for concern. If you want to post a picture of her next poop we would love to see it to let you know how it looks. Also....knowing she came from a pet store i would strongly recommend getting her tested for parasites asap.
• History - Recently purchased from PetSmart.

More in a minute

 

[MissSkittles]

@elizaann2 you are so much quicker than me. lol

 

[ChamelaChameleon]

Veiled Chams are plant munchers. If she munches on the mossy vine, it could cause her to be impacted. These are options for Cham safe vines.

 

[elizaann2]

@elizaann2 you are so much quicker than me. lol

Only sometimes! Life has been crazy the last 2 months so I haven't been on as much to offer what support I can but I'm trying

 

[elizaann2]

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - ZooMed Reptibreeze XL. 2x2x4 screen. Perfection!! Depending on where you live you may want to consider wrapping 2-3 sides of her enclosure with either a shower curtain, window cling kits, or even corrugated plastic to help keep the humidity levels where they need to be for her.
• Lighting - 12 hours on 12 hours off on a timer. ReptiSun UVB 5.0 light bar and Pangea Halogen 50w heat bulb. Perfect!
• Temperature - Basking spot around 80, rest of enclosure ranges in 70s, drops to about 65 at night. Measured using a digital probe. Perfect! To keep her clutch small you will want to make sure that her basking temp is 78-80 degrees, NO HIGHER. 65 degrees at night is amazing!!
• Humidity - 45% during the day, 65% at night. Bought plastic sheeting today to get her night time humidity up over 80%. Perfect!!
• Plants - Live plants. She has a large umbrella plant, pothos, wax plant, and two prayer plants. Perfect! Veiled chameleons tend to eat the plants in their enclosure as well, so just a heads up on that. Because of this it is especially important to make sure that all the plants in her enclosure are safe for her to nibble on. You will also want to make sure that there are no plastic plants in her enclosure.
• Placement - My daughter's bedroom. Very low traffic area. Near a window but we keep the blinds shut. Great, you will want to be careful with the window, it can heat up her enclosure without you knowing about it. I didn't see how high up her enclosure is but you wil basically want to make sure that her top branches are at least at your eye level or if you can, a little higher, height equals safety for chameleons.
• Location - Southern California

Current Problem - Newbie, just making sure we are getting things right.

 

[Beman]

I do not think she is as old as you are thinking. Her body is not developed in that way yet. Now the mouth... You want to keep a very very close eye on that. I would also look into vets near you that have chameleon/reptile experience. My concern is the start of mouth rot. But you also can see this separation between the top and bottom lip line with MBD.

May I see the entire enclosure set up with lighting on top so I can see distances to branches?

Here is info on controlling clutch size. Like I said I dont think she is 7 months yet just based on her looks. Can you tell me how long her body is from tip of nose to her vent? Note I would reduce your insect size. If she has a mouth injury going on large feeders can cause more damage.

As she matures you will have to start cutting back her food. By about 6-7 months she should be getting about 5-8 small feeders each day. At about 7-8 months you want to slowly reduce by cutting down feeder amounts so that she is on a feeding schedule of 3 days a week with 3 feeders. You want them to be on this schedule by the time they are 9-10 months old.

You will not ever want basking to be over 78-80 for her. Very important for females because as she ages she needs this temp no higher at basking to help control the amount of eggs she produces. The hotter the temp they more their metabolism speeds up so we have to keep the temp lower since we are doing lower food intake.

A lay bin should be added as a permanent fixture by the time they are 6 months old so they get used to it and it does not cause stress.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/laying-bin-set-up-educational-video.77225/

 

[Daydrmbelievr80]

I do not think she is as old as you are thinking. Her body is not developed in that way yet. Now the mouth... You want to keep a very very close eye on that. I would also look into vets near you that have chameleon/reptile experience. My concern is the start of mouth rot. But you also can see this separation between the top and bottom lip line with MBD.

May I see the entire enclosure set up with lighting on top so I can see distances to branches?

Here is info on controlling clutch size. Like I said I dont think she is 7 months yet just based on her looks. Can you tell me how long her body is from tip of nose to her vent? Note I would reduce your insect size. If she has a mouth injury going on large feeders can cause more damage.

As she matures you will have to start cutting back her food. By about 6-7 months she should be getting about 5-8 small feeders each day. At about 7-8 months you want to slowly reduce by cutting down feeder amounts so that she is on a feeding schedule of 3 days a week with 3 feeders. You want them to be on this schedule by the time they are 9-10 months old.

You will not ever want basking to be over 78-80 for her. Very important for females because as she ages she needs this temp no higher at basking to help control the amount of eggs she produces. The hotter the temp they more their metabolism speeds up so we have to keep the temp lower since we are doing lower food intake.

A lay bin should be added as a permanent fixture by the time they are 6 months old so they get used to it and it does not cause stress.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/laying-bin-set-up-educational-video.77225/

Not the greatest picture of her enclosure, but the only one I have on my phone atm. I can take more tonight when I get home.

 

[Daydrmbelievr80]

You can't really see her heat lamp in that pic, but its immediately in front of the light bar. I'd estimate her length at somewhere between 6 and 7 inches including her tail.

 

[Daydrmbelievr80]

I'll also try to get some better pics of her mouth tonight. I've started to look for a specialized reptile vet, but they seem pretty scarce near me :-(

 

[Beman]

Ok perfect so this link may help you find a vet near you. https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/veterinarian-resources.67/

For her cage. Your off to a fantastic start. Only corrections I see is you want to remove all the substrate in the very bottom. This is an impaction risk should she eat it.
All the moss covered vines replace with real branches but not pine or cedar. Or if you use fake you want to buy flukers vines.

For the temp gauge. You want to take that probe and hook it in directly below her heat fixture to the branch. This is going to give you a more accurate reading on temp.

For the reptisun 5.0 T5HO fixture. You want a measured distance of 8-9 inches from the bottom of the fixture sitting on top of the cage to the closest branches below. This will put her in the correct UVI level.

Since she is a total of 6-7 inches with the tail she is younger than the 6-7 months... Now she could be that old but very under sized as well. Her size now is more like maybe 5 months. Her color pattern though indicates she is younger than 6-7 months. She most definitely is not a year old like petsmart told you. She would have a fully developed color pattern. Did Petsmart tell you how long they had her by chance? This will play into her size quite a bit because they have very subpar husbandry there.

 

[Daydrmbelievr80]

Our local reptile shop recommended clay balls at the bottom of the enclosure to absorb any excess moisture. What are your thoughts on those?

I actually have Flukers vines on the way to replace the moss ones, along with the stuff for her lay bin (12' pot with 50/50 sand/soil). That should all arrive tomorrow. My daughter wants to use some branches from the trees in our backyard, but I'm hesitant. Are citrus branches okay? I wasn't sure because of any citrus oils that might be an irritant. What about pomegranate or pear? Should we sand them smooth before putting them in there?

Right now we are using fishing line to secure things. Any other recs for doing this? I'll get the probe moved tonight. I didn't think of hooking it directly to the branch. Smart! Her branches below the lights are about 8 inches despite the angle/appearance in the pic, so I think we are good there. I'll double check though.

Okay, my first guess was that she was around 5 months because I've noticed some colors/pattern (some faint spots and stripes) starting to come in and I assume that is the start of her adult coloring. PetSmart didn't say how long they had had her, but I know it was at least 4-5 weeks because we were visiting her a couple of times a week for that long.

 

[Daydrmbelievr80]

I'm also worried about having to drive very far for a specialized vet. It's looking as though the nearest one to us is 30-45 minutes away. I don't love the idea of her being stressed out in a carrying crate/car for that amount of time. Am I overthinking it? Or should I try to find someone closer who maybe isn't an expert but still sees reptiles?

 

[Beman]

Our local reptile shop recommended clay balls at the bottom of the enclosure to absorb any excess moisture. What are your thoughts on those?

I actually have Flukers vines on the way to replace the moss ones, along with the stuff for her lay bin (12' pot with 50/50 sand/soil). That should all arrive tomorrow. My daughter wants to use some branches from the trees in our backyard, but I'm hesitant. Are citrus branches okay? I wasn't sure because of any citrus oils that might be an irritant. What about pomegranate or pear? Should we sand them smooth before putting them in there?

Right now we are using fishing line to secure things. Any other recs for doing this? I'll get the probe moved tonight. I didn't think of hooking it directly to the branch. Smart! Her branches below the lights are about 8 inches despite the angle/appearance in the pic, so I think we are good there. I'll double check though.

Okay, my first guess was that she was around 5 months because I've noticed some colors/pattern (some faint spots and stripes) starting to come in and I assume that is the start of her adult coloring. PetSmart didn't say how long they had had her, but I know it was at least 4-5 weeks because we were visiting her a couple of times a week for that long.

So citrus branches are normally fine. I would not sand them down. Just make sure there are no sharps sticking out. If you leave bark on they are going to last longer for you. Just wash them off well and let them air dry.
I use zip ties to secure my branches to one another and then I clean cut the part that sticks out so there is not a sharp edge. This is a good cheat to anchor branches https://www.chameleonforums.com/thr...anches-to-screen-cage-diy-alternative.184190/

Per the floor you want a bare bottom. Much easier for cleaning and it will not grow bacteria. Just make sure you have a large pan under it for drainage. I have seen lots of things done for this. from water heater trays to dog kennel trays. Or you can order one from Dragon strand.

I'm also worried about having to drive very far for a specialized vet. It's looking as though the nearest one to us is 30-45 minutes away. I don't love the idea of her being stressed out in a carrying crate/car for that amount of time. Am I overthinking it? Or should I try to find someone closer who maybe isn't an expert but still sees reptiles?

So for that short of a drive you are good. I have to go 90 minutes to get to a real reptile vet. Just get a box poke a few small holes for air push a stick through the bottom about an inch from the bottom and lay a small towel in the bottom below it. This will give her something to grip. Make sure she can not get to any tape when you close up the box. She will sleep on the trip there because it will be dark. This means she will not get stressed out. If they suggest a vitamin shot pass on it. Petsmart already supplements with D3 and a shot may be too much for her system to handle.

 

[Daydrmbelievr80]

Thank you! Would the (empty) substrate tray for the Repti-Breeze enclosure suffice, or do you think we would need a drip tray under that?

I just made her an appointment for reptile vet that is 30 minutes from us, so I guess I should consider us lucky.

 

[Gloriawood]

I'm also worried about having to drive very far for a specialized vet. It's looking as though the nearest one to us is 30-45 minutes away. I don't love the idea of her being stressed out in a carrying crate/car for that amount of time. Am I overthinking it? Or should I try to find someone closer who maybe isn't an expert but still sees reptiles?

My vet is 2 hours one way for me. My guy does just fine in a dark box like @Beman suggested. We’ve made the trip more than once. He only stresses when I get him out at the vet he gets pretty feisty then

 

[Sherbertsmysunshine]

My vet is 2 hours one way for me. My guy does just fine in a dark box like @Beman suggested. We’ve made the trip more than once. He only stresses when I get him out at the vet he gets pretty feisty then

Sherbert tries to bite the vet every chance he gets

 

[Beman]

Thank you! Would the (empty) substrate tray for the Repti-Breeze enclosure suffice, or do you think we would need a drip tray under that?

I just made her an appointment for reptile vet that is 30 minutes from us, so I guess I should consider us lucky.

Ideally you want a tray that the cage sits into... Then you can wet vac that pan for water removal. If you can raise the cage up off the tray about 1/2 inch even better then you do not get a soggy bottom floor and it will all drain out.

The substrate tray will not catch overspray running down your screen.