Veiled female MBD, possible constipation

[laurie]

That is such an improvement. She ate on her own. I sure hope the worms I send get to you today, but I am guessing tomorrow. Hope she likes butter worms. I can send you more if she likes them. A video of her eating would be great for you and us, but pascal might not enjoy it, don't want to stress her. Putting both back legs on one vine is very hopeful.

 

[Riven]

I guess lunch time worms are worse than morning worms! She saw me and slide right down the side of her vine and plants into the corner. So I got her out, showed her the worms, put them in the usual spot then put her in... she went right back down the side!

She's been having smaller but more frequent voids, as evidenced by the spots on her vines/plants, which works okay I guess I can kind of track that she is moving around, possibly thinking about getting some crickets? Hmmmm....

I put the water drip on low, still not sure what the best way to prevent flooding is... ideas?

 

[Elizadolots]

Can you drill a hole in the bottom of the enclosure and put a bucket under it?

 

[Riven]

I think it might break if I try... I've been keeping the drip on a real slow rate into the plants mostly and we didn't have a flood yesterday. I have not seen her drink off of the drip, but she is still drinking from me.

She has not eaten any more worms, but her weight is holding at 22 ( I can't help it! ) and it appears the crickets are a little thinner. I have seen her move to follow one, of course that has the effect of a drunk elephant sneaking up on a rabbit... but at least she is trying!

I've been diluting her calcium with fluids, will padding not diluting I guess to get a little extra fluid in each day. She still seems dehydrated and I can see some "wrinkles" in her skin on her lower belly, which may or may not be from the injections. I keep them small as not to cause too much damage to the subdermal circulation, assuming chams are like other animals and have this concern.

 

[Olimpia]

Could you have a catching bowl on the bottom, covered by a little fabric/mesh? Have it be just a little bigger than the dripper and you can leave it however long it lasts without worrying about flooding. When it's done, empty, refill and begin again?

 

[Riven]

Thanks a good idea... I was worried about her falling into it, but yea, just a cloth or something would work. We're thinking about upgrading to a new enclosure now that she seems to be doing so much better, but that will work until we get one!

 

[Elizadolots]

Tulle works well for that. The water drips right through but it's soft so if she does fall on it, she won't even get scratched.

What is the bottom of the enclosure made of? If it's plastic, you should be able to drill a hole in it.

 

[Riven]

It's plastic, my experience with plastic and drilling is not a good record, lol. We'll probably just get her a new one ( cage that is ).

She hasn't eaten again today, but is feisty. I left two worms in there. She really watched them... I need to get a better watering system set up I think...


So since I know she CAN eat, should I just let her be? Watch for listlessness ( oddly enough that is a real word, lol ) and such?

Her little grip is getting so good, especially on her one hind foot, it's almost like she's pinching me, I think she's doing it on purpose! I don't know if my daughter has noticed or not, but it's possible she's lost her cham. I have thought about putting in a small waterfall pond in my study for my orchids... so that just seems like a good place for Pascal too right? LOL I've been doing some looking and am excited to get her a new cage as well. Should I get a big one now, so just upgrade while she's getting better yet?

 

[lindawaz]

has anyone used a Big one but cut it down? Not actually cut it but either lower the top with an insert or raise the bottom? I would think lowing the roof would be easier since you could possibly use wood few coats of paint for protection and cut holes in it screen over the holes for the lights?

Its an Idea, this would also make it possible to only buy one cage for their entire life.

 

[Riven]

If it's best for her to have a smaller cage that's okay, I just figured if we could get the one she will be in forever it might be less stressful changing environments for her later.

I was looking at the site that Liz linked me to and I couldn't help but look at the "animals"... One is enough, one is enough...

She's been really feisty, and moving great. She's been really thirsty. I think I need a better water set up, obviously what I'm doing isn't working for her, and she drinks a lot from the syringe, but likes to pretend she's not, lol. Like if I run it down the wall or she can pretend she's not drinking from me, she I move too much or "remind her" I'm the one giving it to her she stops drinking, lol.

I'm also open to suggestions of a feeding cup... I don't know if it is such a thing, but what would work awesome would be a cup that's deep enough the butterworms can't get out, but she can get to them, that has a suction cup for the side... Any thoughts?

 

[Riven]

Well today her front "hands" and her stronger front leg are molting/shedding, I'm guessing maybe this is due to muscle growth increasing the size of them?
What do you guys think?

Spunky as usual, didn't seem to want any water, and was patient with me while I worked with her lip. I keep cleaning it and pulling her lip back into place, I really don't expect it to every really recover, but I figure it's worth trying right?

 

[Riven]

So she was NOT interested in worms today, did NOT want to drink today... did NOT want to shot to day... I guess at least she's the type of girl who knows what she wants!

But I took her out, she got her shot, she looked at bugs, I held her up by the light were she desperately wants to be for about 15 min. ( yea, I'm a sucker, my arm was tired ) and decided to go rain storm on her... then she finally drank a little, but stared at my hand and the syringe like they might be poisonous... then quit and turned away.

So I decided that since I didn't seem to be seeing as many crickets running around as usual to do a head count. On Tuesday I released a little box 'o crickets in there with her, box says 24-30 crickets, and that looked a bit under when they came fleeing out upon the opening of the box, so let's go with 24 crickets for good measure, and tonight... I lifted everything ( all two plants, her vine, and the wood hidey thing I am not sure why I keep in there, as well as under the "bedding" ( read as paper towels right now because we're out of newspaper) and found... FIVE crickets. So apparently she HAS been eating! Just in private.

I weighed her today ( I can't help it Elizadots, I just can't!) and she was at... 18 grams... which totally perplexed me as I I know the crickets went somewhere, but then I found some BIG poops... which probably accounted for the weight loss. So... over all, I think she's doing great, she seems to be regressing a little on her coordination, but it seems like every time she's done that as Elizadots said, it breaks way to new and better things. Which shouldn't be surprising really as that's how it is in children usually as well. Mine for example barely talked, then didn't say anything for some time, and now... I can't get them to keep their mouths shut! I'm going to order her new crickets this weekend, and possibly get her a new cage ordered! I'm very excited to get it all set up for her, she does really love her cage now, so I hope it doesn't stress her too much at first...

 

[lindawaz]

That is all good news! Except for the weighing part, wish you could stop but understand that is your way of monitoring her progress

I would be very careful about those crickets being loose in her cage. They have been known to feed on reptiles while they are sleeping. She has enough to work on without having cricket bites.

Big poo's is awesome! shows the insides are working. I get excited about poo! Tells such a story about the creature it came from. Never really cared about it until I got my beardies. Now it is a word I love to hear about- but never admit it in public I am far from "normal" and the poo talk might just put me over the edge in some people's minds

Keep working hard you two- it is certainly paying off!

 

[Elizadolots]

Shedding is usually a sign of growth. Young healthy chameleons shed a lot. Older chameleons, not so much, but they grow all their lives, so they shed all their lives.

Which means, shedding is a good sign.

I'm concerned that she might not be getting enough time near the light. I don't want you to suffer any injuries..is there a way to set up a "perch" for her with a lot of soft stuff under it and a vine she can climb for access?

A part of me wants to tell you not to give her so many crickets at a time....but if you are seeing huge poop, that is such a good sign....Definitely monitor the cricket situation though. If you see any new injuries on her, start pulling the extra crickets at night. During the day, it's not really an issue.

Please just call me Eliza. It's so much easier to type! (it's not my name anyway!)

 

[Riven]

Hmmm... I haven't noticed any new "holes" on her, lol. They came in a little box with cricket food and such and I put that in there, and they had been eating on the food. I think she doesn't like me to watch her eat, because she must've eaten a butter worm as it was missing as well. These were not large crickets, in fact they were some of the tiniest crickets I'd ever seen, 1/4" size, so I was not too worried about her "over eating" should I be? What would be the best way to put the cricket with her? To get them out I'd have to pull everything out to capture them as they're fast little beasts.

I was thinking about maybe creating a little bit of a false bottom in her cage to raise her up, as well as raising her perch as she's doing good with climbing as all. I was going to pick up some more plants today to accommodate that.

Eliza, that's not your name, I just realized it's not dots, and it's dolots anyway, lol

 

[lindawaz]

uh, oh...you are in trouble! someone is going to be harsh and tell you about not gutloading your crickets!!!

personally I am happy she is hunting and doing such an awesome job in the recovery department

 

[Olimpia]

Maybe it would be easier to make a makeshift cage for her while she recovers? I haven't had to deal with a chameleon with MBD yet, thank goodness, but I've always felt that in that case a horizontal cage would be the best thing for them. At least while they recover.

Something like this, sort of.

It would be easy to construct, taking maybe a couple hours to do. But it would give less height, which might be dangerous for her right now, and gives her more horizontal space, so she can still move in and out of her basking spot.

Dunno, just an idea.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

uh, oh...you are in trouble! someone is going to be harsh and tell you about not gutloading your crickets!!!

Looks like its gonna be me! I can't overstate the importance of good gutloading in your case. Your little Cham is trying so hard to recover so you need to make sure she has the building blocks to rebuild her bones and heal her chin as well as grow so she needs the absolute best Gutloading practices right now at this critical time. If she doesn't get what she needs in nutrients, vitamins and minerals she won't get better. I know you are giving her calcium directly but she also needs it in her food. She needs literally as much as she can get because she is starving for calcium right now - that's what MBD is.

Use mustard greens, collard greens (the best ratio of calcium to phosphorus), turnip greens, and dandelions for gutloading. You don't have to use them all at once, you can rotate them out every week or so. And you can just throw a leaf in the cage to feed the crickets in there. If you are going to feed the crickets in her cage that's fine, and in fact she may munch on the food too, which isn't a bad thing!

How far away from the light is she where she normally sits? She really needs that UVB too,which really only reaches about 6" from the bulb if I remember right. Without UVB she wont be digesting the calcium you are giving her so she wont be able to use it. Olimpia's drawing is spot on for what I was thinking too!

As usual, you're doing a phenomenal job! Glad she's showing more improvement.

 

[Riven]

I picked up a batch today to gut load, and I have food in her cage for them, they have collard greens and carrots and orange for "water".

Since she wasn't eating at all really I was hoping the food she knew ( Crickets) would help get her going on eating, I figured non-gut loaded crickets ( these are supposedly commercially gut loaded, but we know how that goes) are better than nothing! And I expected it to come up, but thanks for the warning. ;D

I am going to order her a batch of crickets online, these dumb little boxes of them are like $6 plus tax, so it's much cheaper and nice to have them on hand to order a batch of them.

I am going to order her a new cage today as well, and I am getting one I can put on the side for now and stand up later. I altered her current cage so she can now get closer to the light, she was about 8-10" away. Now she can get within 6".

 

[Elizadolots]

It sounds like you're on a good track with her. I look forward to the day we get a video of her crawling around looking happy.

Oh, and 20 or so tiny crickets is probably okay, but if lots aren't getting eaten, it's time to cut back. When you order them online, I would order that size and cut back the number as they grow.