Veiled Digging Question

[darthink]

Hi everyone, I recently got a veiled chameleon probably a week and a half ago. I think I was told she's about a month or month and a half old, so I assume about two months maybe. Well, I saw her kind o running around the cage digging here them there, like a frenzied dog looking for a buried bone. Do they normally start laying eggs this young? I'm scared, I haven't anything deep for her to dig in, I'm not sure what "egg bound" is but it doesn't sound good or healthy.

Thanks for any tips!

 

[Elizadolots]

Could you post a picture of your lady? That would help the experts determine her age.

 

[camimom]

Females dont start developing eggs until at least 4 months old, (though even this is super early for them).
as eliza said, post a photo of your cham on your hand please so we can guesstimate age.

also, it would be great if you would fill this out so we can make sure your husbandry is correct.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/

 

[darthink]

(as of November 8th, 2012)

Chameleon Info:

My Chameleon - My chameleon named Pascala is a Veiled Chameleon, presumably female I'm pretty sure, approximately 2 months, I've had her for about 2 or 3 weeks.

Handling - I handle her maybe once or twice a day for a few minutes if she wants, I let her choose, some days I don't, but most of the time I try to build a bond with her.

Feeding - Right now I'm feeding her small crickets. I just got a better container to hold them, so soon I'm going to go buy some fruits and veggies and blend them together into ice cubes to feed the crickets. I currently feed her around 4 crickets a day. It's tough to find how much one should feed, there's not exactly a chart laying around, heh.

Supplements - I need help in this department, I'm scared to buy anything at a pet store because everyone seems to think they're the enemy. Also, they say to give chams a multi vitamin and stuff like twice a month, and I am clueless how to administer that! O_O

Watering - Well, presently the primary source is misting the environment. I want to say a few things about this though, it scares me to death. I'm scared my little girl isn't getting enough water. She hates getting misted, she'll crawl away and her tail will curl a little and maybe she'll turn a dark color. Sometimes she'll let out a deep breath, not a hiss really but a deep breath. She just doesn't seem to like it. I'll also mist the environment and leaves and such as much as I can, but sadly the UVB lamp seems to evaporate everything pretty quickly. I've also tried the "drip" technique by poking a hole in a water bottle at the bottom and letting it drip. It usually forms a bulge of water, then stops dripping, so it doesn't work very well. Regardless, she never seems to have a clue what it is and I've never seen her drink from it. To be honest, I've hardly ever seen her drink anything. So her getting enough water is really scaring me. Any suggestions would be great, I don't want to stress her very much by force spraying her to death, but it's important she gets well hydrated. I want to add that I took her in the shower once, let her climb on a net, hoping she'd get some mist. I probably won't do it again for a while till she's bigger, she just tried to climb up higher and higher, and hit the water before I could see and wash my hands to get her. She kept her eyes closed for a few minutes after, but then opened them and everything seemed alright. I feel like this is when she got the most water intake, but not 100% sure. Also, I use only pure water, no faucet stuff unless it's from my parents home with a well. I use purified water or Deer Park bottled water.

Fecal Description - So I've read there's two parts to this, the brownish part and the "urate" I think? Which is/should be the white part. So far it seems white or cream or light yellow. Over the last few days it's more cream than light yellow. My cham has not been tested for anything.

History - Not much history yet really.​

Cage Info:

Cage Type - Currently, I have a glass/screen combo. Glass on all sides except top, which is screen. I'd say it's about a 12" x 6" x 8". I know it's not ideal by any means, but I'm a college student and by definition we're poor. You'll probably sigh more when reading the rest of the cage description, but Christmas is coming up, and Pascala is probably going to be moving into a big all screen cage.

Lighting - I have a 60 watt Zoo Med Daylight Blue Reptile Bulb with full spectrum. It also says on the box it provides UVA ("the wavelength that stimulates normal feeding behavior"). I hope this provides the right light for calcium absorption, because also on the box it says "Can be used with Zoo Med's Reptisum 5.0 UVB Fluorescent lamp for proper calcium absorption. It says it's full spectrum though, but for "heating reptile or amphibian terrariums." I usually turn the light on in the morning around 9 or 10 or sometimes 11 if I have a different class that requires me being there a different time. I know I should probably get a timer too...

Temperature - I have not measured a temperature yet, but I have guesstimates. I've felt the side of the cage while the light is on, and I'd say it seems in the 90s maybe, but this guess is based on feeling glass a few inches below the light. The light itself sits on top of the cage, and it's really hot if I touch it.

Humidity - I do not have any clue what humidity levels are inside the cage. In my house it's about 46.5% humidity, so I assume it's higher in the cage since I mist it and the water evaporates.

Plants - currently, due to the small size of the cage and me having no clue as to what plants to buy, I have no live plants. I use a fake vine of leaves and things. I also have a net in there for her to climb on, and she seems to absolutely love it.

Placement - The cage isn't really located where a vent is spewing air into it. It's in my room, a room that doesn't get much light. At night I set the cage on my nightstand next to my bed, which is about two feet high. During the day, I move the cage on my deck, about 2.5 to 3 feet high, where I put the lamp on top of the cage.

Location - I am located in the Piedmont of North Carolina. Charlotte and Concord area basically.​

I've included all my information as well as a couple of pictures of her for reference. On one is her, (sleeping), next to my finger, but since my finger is in the foreground, it'll appear a little bigger, just fyi.


Thanks!

 

[ChameleonMom]

There is so much wrong with absolutely everything about the care of your chameleon that I'm not even sure where to start.

I have a question though, and I'm not trying to be a cow but if you are 'basically poor' (your words) why would you take on a chameleon in the first place? They require a lot of diligent care; they have very specific cage requirements, temperature & humidity, feeding & gutloading AND supplementing requirements and the ongoing cost of what can be pricey veterinary care.

I just love these guys and if you're not able to give him what he needs, that makes me sad.

Good luck.

 

[carol5208]

yes, there is much to be changed here or your chameleon is not going to thrive. Sorry to say but that is plain cruel keeping a chameleon in a 12 X 6 X 8 cage. You cannot keep a chameleon in that type of glass cage with no ventilation on the bottom. You are going to fry your chameleon putting it in a small tank and blasting a 60 watt light on it. You need a uvb light. A 5.0 tube light preferably. A spiral is ok as long as it is a 5.0. In a tank that small and your chameleon being that young, I would not use anything more than a 20 watt light for heat and that may be too much.It is literally going to be impossible to regulate temps and humdiity in an enclosure that tiny. If you put a basking light on there will be no place for your chameleon to cool down. Bottom line, is you NEED another enclosure. What you have is not sufficient. I don't mean to sound like a jerk here either, but why get an animal that you cannot care for properly?. I agree with the chameleonmom. As far as the vitamin, you don't give it to the chameleon, you dust your crickets with it. Also you need a plain calcium and a calcium with d3. The plain calcium you dust your crickets with daily and the calcium and multi vit you use twice monthly. It is costly to keep a chameleon and they can need vet care at the drop of a hat. It might not have been the wisest decision getting one if you are "poor" as you stated. your chameleon is a baby not more than a couple months old and is too young to lay eggs. Also, she should be eating about 20-25 crickets a day. You are starving her right now. The light you have does not produce UVB. Without it your chameleon will die.

 

[darthink]

There is so much wrong with absolutely everything about the care of your chameleon that I'm not even sure where to start.

I have a question though, and I'm not trying to be a cow but if you are 'basically poor' (your words) why would you take on a chameleon in the first place? They require a lot of diligent care; they have very specific cage requirements, temperature & humidity, feeding & gutloading AND supplementing requirements and the ongoing cost of what can be pricey veterinary care.

I just love these guys and if you're not able to give him what he needs, that makes me sad.

Good luck.

Well, first off, she'll get the care she needs and deserves, but it doesn't matter if I had unlimited resources, it's a learning process for me, and this is what I'm trying to do, learn. I took a lot of time to fill out this form requested of me and was humbly honest.

So please, I ask, don't assume I don't care about my chameleon, I'm merely not as experienced as you. I have a large heart, perhaps larger than yours, and my main goal and concern is to provide a good home for Pascala.

So please, if you'd like to, help me with the most important task first. Perhaps a better way to get her hydrated.


(edit, I'd also like to add that maybe I was exaggerating about the poorness, please, just don't worry about the "poor" choice of words.. -.-)

 

[carol5208]

take an eye dropper and drip water on her nose. Do it for awhile until she starts to drink. It may take a few minutes. Misting that tank you have and dripping water is going to cause stagnant conditions and you are going to cause a respiratory infection. A screen lid is NOT enough ventilation.

 

[darthink]

take an eye dropper and drip water on her nose. Do it for awhile until she starts to drink. It may take a few minutes. Misting that tank you have and dripping water is going to cause stagnant conditions and you are going to cause a respiratory infection. A screen lid is NOT enough ventilation.

Okay, thank you for your positive information, Carol

 

[Elizadolots]

She's so cute! You're probably right on the age.

To be honest, I think she was sold to you at too young an age. I don't blame you at all. Heck, I have a chihuahua I bought before she was 5 weeks old. That would actually be illegal now in my state.

I think you are doing a great job of learning what needs to be done.

Honestly, I have to say that really young chameleons are often kept in enclosures that are unacceptable for grown chameleons. I think people sometimes forget that babies are different and you have a baby so more glass is really normal for a baby that age.

You do need to be looking into a big girl enclosure for her. Check the board sponsors. LLL Reptile, in particular, has good pricing on cages. At this point, I would to ahead and get her an adult size cage. For her that would be something around 3 to 4 feet tall.

 

[carol5208]

She's so cute! You're probably right on the age.

To be honest, I think she was sold to you at too young an age. I don't blame you at all. Heck, I have a chihuahua I bought before she was 5 weeks old. That would actually be illegal now in my state.

I think you are doing a great job of learning what needs to be done.

Honestly, I have to say that really young chameleons are often kept in enclosures that are unacceptable for grown chameleons. I think people sometimes forget that babies are different and you have a baby so more glass is really normal for a baby that age.

You do need to be looking into a big girl enclosure for her. Check the board sponsors. LLL Reptile, in particular, has good pricing on cages. At this point, I would to ahead and get her an adult size cage. For her that would be something around 3 to 4 feet tall.

that is a tiny fish tank with a screen lid? Are you saying that is ok??? How do you vary temps in a tank that small?
Glass terrariums yes with ventilation , fish tanks no from what I have learned.

 

[darthink]

She's so cute! You're probably right on the age.

To be honest, I think she was sold to you at too young an age. I don't blame you at all. Heck, I have a chihuahua I bought before she was 5 weeks old. That would actually be illegal now in my state.

I think you are doing a great job of learning what needs to be done.

Honestly, I have to say that really young chameleons are often kept in enclosures that are unacceptable for grown chameleons. I think people sometimes forget that babies are different and you have a baby so more glass is really normal for a baby that age.

You do need to be looking into a big girl enclosure for her. Check the board sponsors. LLL Reptile, in particular, has good pricing on cages. At this point, I would to ahead and get her an adult size cage. For her that would be something around 3 to 4 feet tall.

Elizadolots, thank you very much. You've been so nice and extremely understanding. I also think some might have misunderstood how completely small this chameleon is compared to her cage. It's practically a jungle.

But I will certainly be checking into these bigger cages! I have a few questions about the cages though:

1. Should there be screen on all sides?

2. If So, then do I put a live plant in there and that's her main living environment? I've seen a lot of cages in videos of this.

3. If just a plant is what makes up the inside, then how do I feed her? The crickets don't normally hang out on leaves.
​

 

[darthink]

that is a tiny fish tank with a screen lid? Are you saying that is ok??? How do you vary temps in a tank that small?
Glass terrariums yes with ventilation , fish tanks no from what I have learned.

I was told that the bulb I am using was the kind that supplies calcium, they might have been mistaken. If it's just a heat bulb, then should I leave the lamp off the cage for now till I get the calcium invoking bulb? As well as perhaps a new cage?

 

[carol5208]

the thing you have to worry about in a cage that small is when you shine a light in there it heats up the whole cage. There seems to be no escape for the chameleon to cool down. If they cannot thermoregulate they will overheat and die. The blue daylight bulb, is a uva bulb that simulates the sun, or daylight. You need a uvb bulb. It is crucial for you chameleon to live. Normally you want to turn on your lights on and off with the sun up, sun down schedule. Most of us do 12 on 12 off and then less when winter months arrive. Does your chameleon every close its eyes during the day? If so, that is not good. Chameleons never sleep during the day and alot of people do not know this. Most of us use the full screen cages. Terrariums are ok but they provide ventilation at the bottom for the heat to escape. What you are using now does not. You need to get the calcium asap too. Your chameleon can develop metabolic bone disease without it. I would not use a 60 watt. That is way too hot in that little tank. Try a 20 watt and dont lay it on the screen. Put it up a few inches. You need to get a temperature gauge(digital preferred and humidty gauge) these are two things that are critical in the care of your chameleon. your cage tank should be in the low 70's and if you have a basking spot it should be no more than about 80 degrees for that little one you have.

 

[carol5208]

I was told that the bulb I am using was the kind that supplies calcium, they might have been mistaken. If it's just a heat bulb, then should I leave the lamp off the cage for now till I get the calcium invoking bulb? As well as perhaps a new cage?

yes they are mistaken, I just checked the bulb out on zoomed website. That is a basking bulb which aids in digestion and is for warmth. Like I said glass is fine but not the kind you are using. you don't need that kind of bulb anyways. Take it back and get your money. We all use ordinary white household bulbs.

 

[darthink]

the thing you have to worry about in a cage that small is when you shine a light in there it heats up the whole cage. There seems to be no escape for the chameleon to cool down. If they cannot thermoregulate they will overheat and die. The blue daylight bulb, is a uva bulb that simulates the sun, or daylight. You need a uvb bulb. It is crucial for you chameleon to live. Normally you want to turn on your lights on and off with the sun up, sun down schedule. Most of us do 12 on 12 off and then less when winter months arrive. Does your chameleon every close its eyes during the day? If so, that is not good. Chameleons never sleep during the day and alot of people do not know this. Most of us use the full screen cages. Terrariums are ok but they provide ventilation at the bottom for the heat to escape. What you are using now does not. You need to get the calcium asap too. Your chameleon can develop metabolic bone disease without it. I would not use a 60 watt. That is way too hot in that little tank. Try a 20 watt and dont lay it on the screen. Put it up a few inches. You need to get a temperature gauge(digital preferred and humidty gauge) these are two things that are critical in the care of your chameleon. your cage tank should be in the low 70's and if you have a basking spot it should be no more than about 80 degrees for that little one you have.

Thank you. I've never seem her sleep during the day, she's very active, climbing around constantly. I do have calcium pills, like regular one you can buy at Walmart that are nature alley or something. Can I use these and grind them up then maybe dip the crickets in them? Or is there a different and better calcium powder? Also, would I throw some stuff in my cricket cage and shake the poor thins to death?

 

[darthink]

yes they are mistaken, I just checked the bulb out on zoomed website. That is a basking bulb which aids in digestion and is for warmth. Like I said glass is fine but not the kind you are using. you don't need that kind of bulb anyways. Take it back and get your money. We all use ordinary white household bulbs.

But UVB is a build I certainly need, right? Do you have any brand or recommendation?

 

[carol5208]

most of us the reptisun tube style bulbs. With your cage being that little I don't know if they sell a 12 inch, plus you will need the housing for it. You can get a reptiglo or reptisun compact or spiral bulb and use use your dome..Make sure it is a 5.0 I get my calcium online at LLL reptile. It is called Sticky Tongue Farms and it is the outdoor forumula which contains NO d3. This is to be used at every feeding. You can put some in a deep cup or a bag and throw some crickets in there and swish them around. It will coat the crickets but don't make them look like ghosts! As I stated before you need to be feeding your little one about 25 crickets a day. Your chameleon should basically be eating as much as it wants at this stage. Also, as your chameleon gets older you are going to have to get a variety of feeders. Crickets are not enough. They need variety like they get in the wild. right now crickets are ok. You also need to get a multivitamin. I use repcal herptivite and a calcium with d3. I use repcal also. Use that twice monthly for both of these.

 

[darthink]

most of us the reptisun tube style bulbs. With your cage being that little I don't know if they sell a 12 inch, plus you will need the housing for it. You can get a reptiglo or reptisun compact or spiral bulb and use use your dome..Make sure it is a 5.0 I get my calcium online at LLL reptile. It is called Sticky Tongue Farms and it is the outdoor forumula which contains NO d3. This is to be used at every feeding. You can put some in a deep cup or a bag and throw some crickets in there and swish them around. It will coat the crickets but don't make them look like ghosts! As I stated before you need to be feeding your little one about 25 crickets a day. Your chameleon should basically be eating as much as it wants at this stage. Also, as your chameleon gets older you are going to have to get a variety of feeders. Crickets are not enough. They need variety like they get in the wild. right now crickets are ok. You also need to get a multivitamin. I use repcal herptivite and a calcium with d3. I use repcal also. Use that twice monthly for both of these.

WHOA?! My little tiny chameleon eat TWENTY FIVE crickets?! A day?! It just doesn't look like that many can even fit in her!

 

[Elizadolots]

Hi, Darthink!

The trick with the lights is to put the heat lamp all the way to one side. Don't center it. That will create airflow and offer different temperature options for the chameleon.

You definitely do want a UVB bulb. My suggestion would be to get an 18 inch because you'll be able to use that fixture with the adult cage. You can buy 18 inch fixtures at most places that sell fluorescent tubes (think Wal Mart, Home Depot). While you need a special bulb, you don't need a special fixture. Don't worry about the fact that the fixture is bigger than this cage. Just be aware that the areas on either side of her cage are getting UVB so you don't want to sit with a body part under it for extended periods of time (too much UVB for humans can cause skin cancer).

If you don't want to go with the 18 inch tube (which is, I believe, the smallest they make) this might be a situation in which a compact fluorescent is a good option as they are much smaller.

For either of these bulbs, go for the 5.0. The 10.0 is way too much UVB for such a small enclosure.

You'll be amazed at how much she can eat. At this age, you should be letting her eat as much as she can. Once she gets to be around 5 months old you will want to start backing off on the food. Here's a blog entry written by kinyongia (a stellar member of this board): http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/2007/12/keeping-female-veiled.html You'll want to read that. It's about keeping females in a way that minimizes the frequency and sizes of egg clutches produced.