Veiled Chameleon possibly sick

[Vikaiyer]

Hi I have a 5 month old veiled chameleon who I got 2 weeks ago. Pascal is very friendly and has settled in comfortably in his enclosure. I’m worried he might be sick cuz he has a white line forming around his mouth. And after he eats his insects he try’s to eat dirt and vegetation. I have covered all dirt with rocks to prevent him from eating it but he still manages to get some. Also I have put safe non toxic plants so he can munch if he likes. The temperature is 85-70 and humidity is 50-70%. I feed him crickets, horn worms and wax worms and super worms. When I first got him I put moss into the bottom of the enclosure and quickly got rid of it the next day, a week later I noticed he started pooping out a lot of moss (I didn’t even kno he ate it). So his poops smells and it’s been black and dry these past few days as he is passing moss and dirt. His urates is healthy and white with a touch of yellow. But I’m worried about him, I think he might have parasites or mouth rot. He doesn’t always have the white line on his mouth but it does appear up daily. Also he started shedding and it’s been taking over a week for him to complete his shed. Any tips how to help him shed? Should I take pascal to the vet?

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi and welcome! While you’ve given some information about your husbandry, some key parts are missing. In order to better help I need to ask you to fill out the following.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[Vikaiyer]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - boy Veiled chameleon 5 months old, 2 weeks in my care
• Handling - Daily. He’s a odd cham he loves to be handled
• Feeding - 1 Hornworms, 4 crickets, 3 super worms and 2 wax worms, once a day at 5pm
• Supplements - Repetitive with d3 and calcium without d3
• Watering - I mist 5x a day and I have a dripper and yes I’ve seen pascal drink
• Fecal Description - Dark brown and mildly hard, filed with insects and dirt and moss in fecal
• History -

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Screen enclosure
• Lighting - t 10 uvb light and heat
• Temperature daily 89-65 gradient and humidity 50-75%. I use temp gun and humidity gauge
• Plants - Weeping fig tree, bamboo, orchids, rubber tree, vines and branches
• Placement - In a corner of my room 5 feet from air vent and 2 1/2 feet off the ground
• Location - I live in Washington

 

[MissSkittles]

Give me a bit of time and I’ll give you feedback.

 

[Beman]

Can you post pics of him looking straight at the camera... I want to check his casque shape.

 

[MissSkittles]

My responses are in red. Please keep in mind that my intent is to help you...not attack you.
Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - boy Veiled chameleon 5 months old, 2 weeks in my care
• Handling - Daily. He’s a odd cham he loves to be handled It’s actually not that odd...he doesn’t like his enclosure and is taking any way out he can. You don’t provide any measurements but just from your pics I can see that his enclosure is much too small. He needs an upgrade to a 2x2x4’ or equivalent.
• Feeding - 1 Hornworms, 4 crickets, 3 super worms and 2 wax worms, once a day at 5pm It’s best to feed once in the morning to give them time to bask and digest. Variety is good, but I’d cut back on the worms to just a few times a week as treats. Try adding some roaches instead. He should be getting about 5 feeders daily at his age. Attaching feeder and gutloading sheets. Is important to feed your feeders well so they’ll have more nutrition.
• Supplements - Repetitive with d3 and calcium without d3 How often does he get each one?
• Watering - I mist 5x a day and I have a dripper and yes I’ve seen pascal drink You could reduce the amount of misting to 2-3 times a day for 2 minutes each time.
• Fecal Description - Dark brown and mildly hard, filed with insects and dirt and moss in fecal Not good to be eating moss and dirt, but thankfully he is passing it thru. I would suggest having a fecal done to check for parasites.
• History -

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Screen enclosure I already commented on size
• Lighting - t 10 uvb light and heat Not sure I understand this. To my knowledge, there is no T10. Can you post a pic of your lights please?
• Temperature daily 89-65 89 is too hot. Try to get it down closer to 80-82 gradient and humidity 50-75%. Much too humid! Needs to come down to 30-50% during the day. I use temp gun and humidity gauge
• Plants - Weeping fig tree, bamboo, orchids, rubber tree, vines and branches
• Placement - In a corner of my room 5 feet from air vent and 2 1/2 feet off the ground
• Location - I live in Washington

A great resource to learn about keeping your cham is https://chameleonacademy.com/veiled-chameleon-care/
Not sure why he’s eating dirt. Usually it’s caused by a mineral deficiency and sometimes we just don’t know why they do it. Perhaps @Beman has some better insight for you.

• 
  

 

[Vikaiyer]

My responses are in red. Please keep in mind that my intent is to help you...not attack you.
Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - boy Veiled chameleon 5 months old, 2 weeks in my care
• Handling - Daily. He’s a odd cham he loves to be handled It’s actually not that odd...he doesn’t like his enclosure and is taking any way out he can. You don’t provide any measurements but just from your pics I can see that his enclosure is much too small. He needs an upgrade to a 2x2x4’ or equivalent.
• Feeding - 1 Hornworms, 4 crickets, 3 super worms and 2 wax worms, once a day at 5pm It’s best to feed once in the morning to give them time to bask and digest. Variety is good, but I’d cut back on the worms to just a few times a week as treats. Try adding some roaches instead. He should be getting about 5 feeders daily at his age. Attaching feeder and gutloading sheets. Is important to feed your feeders well so they’ll have more nutrition.
• Supplements - Repetitive with d3 and calcium without d3 How often does he get each one?
• Watering - I mist 5x a day and I have a dripper and yes I’ve seen pascal drink You could reduce the amount of misting to 2-3 times a day for 2 minutes each time.
• Fecal Description - Dark brown and mildly hard, filed with insects and dirt and moss in fecal Not good to be eating moss and dirt, but thankfully he is passing it thru. I would suggest having a fecal done to check for parasites.
• History -

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Screen enclosure I already commented on size
• Lighting - t 10 uvb light and heat Not sure I understand this. To my knowledge, there is no T10. Can you post a pic of your lights please?
• Temperature daily 89-65 89 is too hot. Try to get it down closer to 80-82 gradient and humidity 50-75%. Much too humid! Needs to come down to 30-50% during the day. I use temp gun and humidity gauge
• Plants - Weeping fig tree, bamboo, orchids, rubber tree, vines and branches
• Placement - In a corner of my room 5 feet from air vent and 2 1/2 feet off the ground
• Location - I live in Washington

A great resource to learn about keeping your cham is https://chameleonacademy.com/veiled-chameleon-care/
Not sure why he’s eating dirt. Usually it’s caused by a mineral deficiency and sometimes we just don’t know why they do it. Perhaps @Beman has some better insight for you.

• View attachment 283340View attachment 283341

Thank you for all ur helpful advice! So I spoke to a reptile expert and they said he needs a high humidity to shed and that the temperature i wrote was incorrect his gradient is 81-68.
I wouldn’t say my enclosure is too small because he is small rn but I do agree as he becomes an adult then I’ll switch to a bigger enclosure. He doesn’t try to come out unless it’s night time when I handle him and open the door then he’ll slowly come out. Otherwise he sits in one spot and doesn’t move unless to eat or drink or cool off.
I give him calcium without d3 5 days a week and repetitive with d 3 1-2 times a week.
I called the pet store and they confirmed that he has had a fecal test done in the past and that usually chameleons in captivity don’t get them. But I do worry that after he ingested dirt and moss that maybe there could be a problem.
I use a 10.0 reptisun uvb using a 12in lamp. And 80-120v basking light
Also I do gut feed my insects and worms with carrots and dark greens ?
I’ve also attached a picture of his enclosure the first week before I put all those a lot of plants in and after. Which setup is better?

 

[MissSkittles]

Definitely more live plants is best!
Unlike most other reptiles, chameleons are dry shedders. During the day when it’s hot, humidity needs to be low 30-50%. At night when the temps drop is when your humidity can be 70-100%. That recreates the conditions that they have in the wild.
Now, supplements. He’s getting too much D3. It’s a fat soluble vitamin so the body stores it and too much can lead to toxicity. He should be getting a calcium without D3 at every feeding except one every other week. Then you’ll use the Reptivite for that one every other week feeding. I’d say just use calcium with no D3 for at least the next 3 weeks or so to let some of that excess D3 work it’s way thru his system. I don’t know if this could have anything to do with his eating dirt.
Looks like your uvb is the coil type bulb. The problem with those is that they have a very narrow area which is just a few inches away that they provide adequate uvb levels. You’ll need to get a T5 fixture with a 5.0 or Arcadia 6% uvb bulb. It should be as long as your enclosure is wide. If you’ll be upgrading soon to a larger enclosure, save $$ and get the longer bulb and just have it hang over the current enclosure.
Another great resource to check out is Neptune the Chameleon on YouTube. She has lots of videos and is always making more.
Hope I’ve been able to help a bit.

 

[Vikaiyer]

Definitely more live plants is best!
Unlike most other reptiles, chameleons are dry shedders. During the day when it’s hot, humidity needs to be low 30-50%. At night when the temps drop is when your humidity can be 70-100%. That recreates the conditions that they have in the wild.
Now, supplements. He’s getting too much D3. It’s a fat soluble vitamin so the body stores it and too much can lead to toxicity. He should be getting a calcium without D3 at every feeding except one every other week. Then you’ll use the Reptivite for that one every other week feeding. I’d say just use calcium with no D3 for at least the next 3 weeks or so to let some of that excess D3 work it’s way thru his system. I don’t know if this could have anything to do with his eating dirt.
Looks like your uvb is the coil type bulb. The problem with those is that they have a very narrow area which is just a few inches away that they provide adequate uvb levels. You’ll need to get a T5 fixture with a 5.0 or Arcadia 6% uvb bulb. It should be as long as your enclosure is wide. If you’ll be upgrading soon to a larger enclosure, save $$ and get the longer bulb and just have it hang over the current enclosure.
Another great resource to check out is Neptune the Chameleon on YouTube. She has lots of videos and is always making more.
Hope I’ve been able to help a bit.

Yassss I love Neptune the chameleon!! I have watched all of her videos! She has great tips. Hmm maybe that’s why he’s not shedding ok I’ll bring down the humidity and see how that goes for him and yea I wanted to upgrade my uvb lights but it’s just so expensive. Do u have any recommendations where to buy it cheaper?

 

[kinyonga]

You said..."I’m worried about him, I think he might have parasites or mouth rot"...the white line in the mouth is nothing.
As for the feces...they don't look really healthy for sure...so parasites might be worth testing for.

Can you post any photos of the urates or at least describe them....are they white? Orange? Solid? Etc?

 

[MissSkittles]

Yassss I love Neptune the chameleon!! I have watched all of her videos! She has great tips. Hmm maybe that’s why he’s not shedding ok I’ll bring down the humidity and see how that goes for him and yea I wanted to upgrade my uvb lights but it’s just so expensive. Do u have any recommendations where to buy it cheaper?

You could try here https://www.pangeareptile.com/store/arcadia-prot5-uvb-kit.html Arcadia is the same price as ReptiSun and I hear the quality is much better. An added bonus is the Arcadia uvb bulbs need to be changed only every year instead of every 6 months with the ReptiSun.

 

[Vikaiyer]

Can you post pics of him looking straight at the camera... I want to check his casque shape.

He also has started forming little black dots on his face

 

[Beman]

He also has started forming little black dots on his face

Yeah so your boy has MBD. You need to get the correct UVB linear lighting and make sure the placement of it is correct... He should be no closer then 9 inches from the bottom of the fixture to the top of his back. You will have to prop up the fixture on the top of the cage because the cage is smaller then the 2x2x4 enclosure... When you upgrade him to the right cage size you can place the fixture directly on the cage then make the closest basking branch 9 inches below it.

Supplements are very important as well. Follow all the husbandry advice @MissSkittles gave you on what you need to correct for him.
Temps should be no hotter then 80 and with that 100 watt bulb on the cage it is producing much hotter temps then your thinking it is. I would make sure you get a regular household incandescent 60 watt bulb to replace the 100 watt your using.

This is a good resource for you. Start reading through every module in this husbandry program https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/

 

[kinyonga]

Please post a couple of photos of him from the side.

 

[Vikaiyer]

Please post a couple of photos of him from the side.

I took him to the vet today and the vet said he is healthy and good! No stomatitis no parasites!

 

[Beman]

I took him to the vet today and the vet said he is healthy and good! No stomatitis no parasites!

Did they do a fecal, xray, or blood work?

 

[Vikaiyer]

Yeah so your boy has MBD. You need to get the correct UVB linear lighting and make sure the placement of it is correct... He should be no closer then 9 inches from the bottom of the fixture to the top of his back. You will have to prop up the fixture on the top of the cage because the cage is smaller then the 2x2x4 enclosure... When you upgrade him to the right cage size you can place the fixture directly on the cage then make the closest basking branch 9 inches below it.

Supplements are very important as well. Follow all the husbandry advice @MissSkittles gave you on what you need to correct for him.
Temps should be no hotter then 80 and with that 100 watt bulb on the cage it is producing much hotter temps then your thinking it is. I would make sure you get a regular household incandescent 60 watt bulb to replace the 100 watt your using.

This is a good resource for you. Start reading through every module in this husbandry program https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/

Thank you for the advise! I will definitely get him a better uvb light and lamp!

 

[Vikaiyer]

Did they do a fecal, xray, or blood work?

They did a fecal and no blood work or xray. The vet examined him and said he was healthy but he needs a higher humidity and more vitamins in the insects like roaches. And that since I got him from the pet store 2 weeks ago that there shouldn’t be any reason he is sick.

 

[Vikaiyer]

You said..."I’m worried about him, I think he might have parasites or mouth rot"...the white line in the mouth is nothing.
As for the feces...they don't look really healthy for sure...so parasites might be worth testing for.

Can you post any photos of the urates or at least describe them....are they white? Orange? Solid? Etc?

Yes the urates are white and a tip of orange so healthy

 

[Jocccellynnn]

I just wanted to add something after reading all of this, I have a 5 month old veiled as well, but she is a female and a bit smaller. I thought her cage size was adequate, it was around the same size as yours. But I was having the same problem as you mentioned when you said “he likes being held”, like the others who have commented said, he probably is unhappy with something in the cage. Mine was screen climbing and would always come to the front when I walked over, and I realized the size was much to small. It may seem big enough right now but he will grow out of it in no time, and it’s better to upgrade sooner than later! (Once I got the 4ft by 2ft enclosure she is much more happy and moves around a lot more now.)