My bud gave me his whole chameleon kit and animal because it has bee "sick" for a month. Clearly it had a calcium deficiency, but there was one more thing...after an X-ray we discovered that she's gravid. A little over a month she has not laid her eggs. I've got her at 80-85 degree with the humidity at 40. Tube feeding her AD dog food with calcium. She won't eat. I've got fake leaves in and a real plant along with a dish incase she wants to drink out of that. She's in a five gallon. Any suggestions? The soil is play sand and planting soil about 7 inches deep. Pretty quiet house.
Veiled Cham is gravid and won't lay (unfertilized) eggs! HELP!!!
- Thread starter Clarissa
- Start date
carol5208
Chameleon Enthusiast
a 5 gallon is not sufficient for a chameleon to live in if thats what you have her in let alone a place to lay eggs. She needs something around 12 x 12 just for the laying bin. Washed play sand moist enough to hold a tunnel. Do not watch her if she begins to lay. How do you know she has a calcium deficiency? Can you post pics please of her and your laying bin? Also they do not drink out of water dishes! You either have to provide water by misting down the cage or dripping water. I would not be feeding dog food either. How long has it been since she has eaten?. They will stop eating when they are gravid. Force feeding may not be necessary and cause extra stress for her.
Actually....
Veiled chams are one of the few species of chams that will drink from a water dish. So putting a dish along with misting leaves would be another option for her. Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7U2Hd4cwqc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Second, the tank is 12x10. She's got about 17 eggs and yes she has a calcium deficiency and has hypertrophic osteodysytophy. I am a part time zoologist and am a veterinary technician. I am coming here to ask for tips on how to ease her mind so she can pop these eggs out. I have a large set up for her, but for now she's in her nesting box. The wet Science Diet AD dog food was a last resort because she has t eaten in weeks. So she has been fed twice this week with a syringe. Along with the AD I am providing her oral calcium supplement mixed in with it.
Veiled chams are one of the few species of chams that will drink from a water dish. So putting a dish along with misting leaves would be another option for her. Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7U2Hd4cwqc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Second, the tank is 12x10. She's got about 17 eggs and yes she has a calcium deficiency and has hypertrophic osteodysytophy. I am a part time zoologist and am a veterinary technician. I am coming here to ask for tips on how to ease her mind so she can pop these eggs out. I have a large set up for her, but for now she's in her nesting box. The wet Science Diet AD dog food was a last resort because she has t eaten in weeks. So she has been fed twice this week with a syringe. Along with the AD I am providing her oral calcium supplement mixed in with it.
AngieL
Avid Member
Give her a big laying bin filled with moist sand or earth. Cover her cage and leave her. If she isn't strong enough (through lack of food or calcium) then she will need surgery to remove the eggs. If she had strength then a vet could give her oxytocin shots to help bring on the laying process.
And actually, it's rare for a chameleon to drink from a dish! It happens but it's rare. Out of the hundreds of keepers here only a handful will drink that way, I hsve a vieled and she doesn't drink that way.
And actually, it's rare for a chameleon to drink from a dish! It happens but it's rare. Out of the hundreds of keepers here only a handful will drink that way, I hsve a vieled and she doesn't drink that way.
carol5208
Chameleon Enthusiast
It is a very rare occurance for any chameleon to drink from standng water and that is usually why the pet stores have dehydrated dying chameleons because they are doing that exact thing. Trust me, it is not the norm and Veilds are no special species that do this because you saw a video on utube. Never heard of the condition you are are talking about, atleast not on here anways, I thought it was called Metabolic Bone Disease when they have had lack of calcium but hey you learn something everyday on here. Like the other member said, have your vet give her a shot to induce the eggs being layed. The dog food thing was kinda suprising as it is recomended not to even gutload our feeders with dog food as the protein is too high and can cause gout in chameleons. Most people whip up a form a bug juice when they have to force feed, something that is more natural to their diet. Try what the other member said and cover the laying bin and do not disturb her. Good luck with her and I hope she makes it. It might be helpful to post a pic of the laying bin and the chameleon itself also.
Yup
Thanks for the advice. Yeh, from the zoo where I used to work at one of the zoologist even advised putting in a water dish. And yes, I know it's a rare thing, but the veiled Cham is one of the few that do this. She is indeed in a room by her self isolated from noise and sound. She's in my walk in closet. Anywho, thanks a lot. Finger's crossed.
Thanks for the advice. Yeh, from the zoo where I used to work at one of the zoologist even advised putting in a water dish. And yes, I know it's a rare thing, but the veiled Cham is one of the few that do this. She is indeed in a room by her self isolated from noise and sound. She's in my walk in closet. Anywho, thanks a lot. Finger's crossed.
carol5208
Chameleon Enthusiast
It is not just a Veild thing. I know someone that has a Jackson's that did it too and there are probably rare instances in many other species if we got right down to it. Anyways, not to argue about that anymore. The important thing is getting your chameleon to lay her eggs before it is too late. Like I said pics are always helpful. I would be interested in seeing if she has Metabolic Bone Disease.
carol5208
Chameleon Enthusiast
Sounds like the poor little chameleon has everything against it.
Are her limbs all curvy?
fluxlizard
Avid Member
Everyone has already given you pretty good advice- isolate her so she's got privacy, give her soil to lay in, a warm heat lamp to help her metabolism while she is having problems.
A good nesting bin/ enclosure combination for privacy is a clean garbage can 1/3 full of soil that is damp enough to hold a tunnel when you dig it with your hand but not too damp. Put a plant and branches on the soil.
You are on target I think with a bit of calcium not only for her bones, but also muscles for laying will require that as well.
Cat food- I dunno I never tried it. I used to use 1 part chicken human baby food, 1 part yogart with live acidophilus, and 2 or 3 (can't remember- enough to make a runny but thick consistancy) pedialyte with a bit of calcium and d3 for sick imports that I was worming and cleaning up and most individuals did really really well (considerable weight gain and improved behavior and appearance over 10 days) on that mix. It passes through them fast enough that they can still be tempted to feed on their own if they are feeling up to it too. Nowadays they have probably better stuff that your vet should be able to find and order. But if she isn't thin I would skip it or limit force-feeding and keep it absolutely minimal, mainly to provide a bit of calcium/d3 prior to laying.
Remember you are stressing her each feeding considerably, and that goes counter to convincing her to lay her eggs. I used to force feed when necessary at night right at the time the lights went out so they could sleep the stress off and have a stress free next day- that seemed to work really well.
Also remember it is normal for her not to eat if she's got a lot of eggs- they can take away the room for her digestive system the last part of pregnancy. At least with fertile eggs- I don't have experience with keeping unbred females around so maybe the eggs are smaller and don't take up as much room.
As for the water bowl- you and carol are both right kind of.
Years ago when I started with veileds I used drips with catch bowls where the drips would splash and attract the chameleons to supply drinking water. After a while many (most? maybe- I didn't keep track but it was a pretty high percentage of them) individuals would learn to drink directly from the bowl even when the drip wasn't going. But the drip definately increased interest even in the ones that would do this, and it is foolish IMO to rely on the standing bowl of water alone and hope you have one of those that will drink standing water. Oustallets did this a lot too.
BUT- don't count on it and don't rely on it even if she is willing to do it sometimes. Many individual lizards aren't consistent when it comes to water bowls. Provide a drip at least into the bowl so the water splashes and catches her attention. I never counted on it and always provided a drip every day for a few minutes, but left the water in the bowl the remainder of the day. And keep the bowl shallow enough that entry and exit are easy if she falls in. And don't soak your nesting substrate.
And get your vet to contact a vet who knows his stuff with these guys and get a consultation so you aren't going it alone. Sounds like she's in for a rough time.
A good nesting bin/ enclosure combination for privacy is a clean garbage can 1/3 full of soil that is damp enough to hold a tunnel when you dig it with your hand but not too damp. Put a plant and branches on the soil.
You are on target I think with a bit of calcium not only for her bones, but also muscles for laying will require that as well.
Cat food- I dunno I never tried it. I used to use 1 part chicken human baby food, 1 part yogart with live acidophilus, and 2 or 3 (can't remember- enough to make a runny but thick consistancy) pedialyte with a bit of calcium and d3 for sick imports that I was worming and cleaning up and most individuals did really really well (considerable weight gain and improved behavior and appearance over 10 days) on that mix. It passes through them fast enough that they can still be tempted to feed on their own if they are feeling up to it too. Nowadays they have probably better stuff that your vet should be able to find and order. But if she isn't thin I would skip it or limit force-feeding and keep it absolutely minimal, mainly to provide a bit of calcium/d3 prior to laying.
Remember you are stressing her each feeding considerably, and that goes counter to convincing her to lay her eggs. I used to force feed when necessary at night right at the time the lights went out so they could sleep the stress off and have a stress free next day- that seemed to work really well.
Also remember it is normal for her not to eat if she's got a lot of eggs- they can take away the room for her digestive system the last part of pregnancy. At least with fertile eggs- I don't have experience with keeping unbred females around so maybe the eggs are smaller and don't take up as much room.
As for the water bowl- you and carol are both right kind of.
Years ago when I started with veileds I used drips with catch bowls where the drips would splash and attract the chameleons to supply drinking water. After a while many (most? maybe- I didn't keep track but it was a pretty high percentage of them) individuals would learn to drink directly from the bowl even when the drip wasn't going. But the drip definately increased interest even in the ones that would do this, and it is foolish IMO to rely on the standing bowl of water alone and hope you have one of those that will drink standing water. Oustallets did this a lot too.
BUT- don't count on it and don't rely on it even if she is willing to do it sometimes. Many individual lizards aren't consistent when it comes to water bowls. Provide a drip at least into the bowl so the water splashes and catches her attention. I never counted on it and always provided a drip every day for a few minutes, but left the water in the bowl the remainder of the day. And keep the bowl shallow enough that entry and exit are easy if she falls in. And don't soak your nesting substrate.
And get your vet to contact a vet who knows his stuff with these guys and get a consultation so you aren't going it alone. Sounds like she's in for a rough time.
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Curvy
When my bid was dropping her off I was assuming shed be curvy but she looked quite normal. Naturally they cling, but her energy isn't there so she can't clbs vines and at times sorda clings on to her self by bending her legs up. Her front arms are fine. This is EXACTLY why these animals should not be in pet shops. Bc you get people are are fascinated but have no knowledge. As a vet tech I can say that this girl is on a roller coaster waiting to crash. Hopefully I can save her. I'm about to run to the zoo and talk with my herp mate. From what it looks like I'm doing everything right. She just wont lay these eggs.
When my bid was dropping her off I was assuming shed be curvy but she looked quite normal. Naturally they cling, but her energy isn't there so she can't clbs vines and at times sorda clings on to her self by bending her legs up. Her front arms are fine. This is EXACTLY why these animals should not be in pet shops. Bc you get people are are fascinated but have no knowledge. As a vet tech I can say that this girl is on a roller coaster waiting to crash. Hopefully I can save her. I'm about to run to the zoo and talk with my herp mate. From what it looks like I'm doing everything right. She just wont lay these eggs.
D
DavidBuchan
Guest
Hello, welcome to the forum 
You seem to have a very good grasp of the overall situation here, but I am a little concerned that you have missed a lot of the specifics. Chameleons are still a specialist animal to keep. Just being a vet doesn't necessarily mean you know what is best for them. Vets have far too many different animals to study to know even the basics about lots of them. This forum has a huge amount of experience with these animals and even a few vets who specialise in them who regularly contribute to it. You have come to the right place for all the best advice. Anyway, that's my speech over, here's a great basic caresheet that I recommend to all new people with Veileds - https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/chameleonsinmyhouse/395-veiled-chameleon-care-sheet.html
It was written by a forum member who has successfully bred and raised Veiled Chameleons.
Just re-read OP - she has been sick for a month....this could be an emergency.....find a vet who is a reptile specialist....there are oxytocin injections to induce her to lay if need be......last resort they can even do a cesarean. Good luck!
You seem to have a very good grasp of the overall situation here, but I am a little concerned that you have missed a lot of the specifics. Chameleons are still a specialist animal to keep. Just being a vet doesn't necessarily mean you know what is best for them. Vets have far too many different animals to study to know even the basics about lots of them. This forum has a huge amount of experience with these animals and even a few vets who specialise in them who regularly contribute to it. You have come to the right place for all the best advice. Anyway, that's my speech over, here's a great basic caresheet that I recommend to all new people with Veileds - https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/chameleonsinmyhouse/395-veiled-chameleon-care-sheet.htmlIt was written by a forum member who has successfully bred and raised Veiled Chameleons.
Just re-read OP - she has been sick for a month....this could be an emergency.....find a vet who is a reptile specialist....there are oxytocin injections to induce her to lay if need be......last resort they can even do a cesarean. Good luck!
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hello
Thanks you and i am glad to be apart of the forum.
I study herp. I've owned many reps and phibs. working at the zoo has given me an amazing amount of knowledge on husbandry. but did it prepare me for this.... nope. have never been around a gravid cham. her water bowl is there if need be and her drip system is coming from a 2liter coke bottle with a pin hole. yes, it's very rigged, but it does the trick and it releases water on the plants at a constant slow pace. she's in a closet completely isolated. i moved her humidity up to 80. i do know that force feeding her is stressing her, but what do you do when she hasn't eaten in two weeks. she's gotta eat something. she seems to be in good spirits. when i reach in she reaches for me. (wanting to cling) she for sure is in for a rough ride. it's a shame her owner let her go like this. well..... we will see. i've now had her for 24 hours so it's going to be a quiet house until she lays some eggs. =) thanks guys.
Thanks you and i am glad to be apart of the forum.
I study herp. I've owned many reps and phibs. working at the zoo has given me an amazing amount of knowledge on husbandry. but did it prepare me for this.... nope. have never been around a gravid cham. her water bowl is there if need be and her drip system is coming from a 2liter coke bottle with a pin hole. yes, it's very rigged, but it does the trick and it releases water on the plants at a constant slow pace. she's in a closet completely isolated. i moved her humidity up to 80. i do know that force feeding her is stressing her, but what do you do when she hasn't eaten in two weeks. she's gotta eat something. she seems to be in good spirits. when i reach in she reaches for me. (wanting to cling) she for sure is in for a rough ride. it's a shame her owner let her go like this. well..... we will see. i've now had her for 24 hours so it's going to be a quiet house until she lays some eggs. =) thanks guys.
Update
http://igotrabiesatthezoo.blogspot.com/2013/01/chameleon-care.html?m=1. I've posted a pic in my blog. Today is
The first day that I've had to get her situated. Please lemme know if I can do anything else. Thanks so much!!!
http://igotrabiesatthezoo.blogspot.com/2013/01/chameleon-care.html?m=1. I've posted a pic in my blog. Today is
The first day that I've had to get her situated. Please lemme know if I can do anything else. Thanks so much!!!
D
DavidBuchan
Guest
Can you post a picture of Clarissa please? I must say from the picture that this looks like a very unsuitable enclosure. Here is a link I often use for some really good ideas/inspiration - https://www.chameleonforums.com/official-enclosure-picture-thread-2-post-your-pics-94781/
Did you read the caresheet I posted above?
I read your blog too. Veiled chams do not reproduce parthenogenetically. I know she is sick at the moment, but they are arboreal lizards and will feel a lot happier with more height.
Did you read the caresheet I posted above?
I read your blog too. Veiled chams do not reproduce parthenogenetically. I know she is sick at the moment, but they are arboreal lizards and will feel a lot happier with more height.
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Arboreal
Arboreal....... She can't climb at all. She just walks the vine. Like I said before she was handed over to me very sickly. I tilt the tank upright ad shell have less space to make nest. My friend who is a professional herp who travels the world studying species says this is the best for her considering her conditions. I wouldn't have set it up like this if I knew it was unsuitable. And yes, I read it. How do I post pics on here with my iPhone?
Arboreal....... She can't climb at all. She just walks the vine. Like I said before she was handed over to me very sickly. I tilt the tank upright ad shell have less space to make nest. My friend who is a professional herp who travels the world studying species says this is the best for her considering her conditions. I wouldn't have set it up like this if I knew it was unsuitable. And yes, I read it. How do I post pics on here with my iPhone?
C
Chameleonic
Guest
i don't know how you can do this sorry. May be you can post again to your blog? This chameleon sounds maybe very sick. people are feeling concerned for her. i hope she will be ok.
Yep
If you'd like My email is [email protected] please email me. I'll send you pics and video. Thanks. I'd invests money into her but I have no hope for her. perhaps when/if she gets well im going to design a large set up for her. But for now she will be in this...
If you'd like My email is [email protected] please email me. I'll send you pics and video. Thanks. I'd invests money into her but I have no hope for her. perhaps when/if she gets well im going to design a large set up for her. But for now she will be in this...
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