Veiled Ages...

Thank you Lynda for sharing this. I don't think that 3 years for female and 4 for the male is normal. I sure hope I can keep Luie and Camille for a nice long time. I try really hard to do everything right by them and give them regular vet attention.
 
Thank you Lynda for sharing this. I don't think that 3 years for female and 4 for the male is normal. I sure hope I can keep Luie and Camille for a nice long time. I try really hard to do everything right by them and give them regular vet attention.

I am afraid we really don't know what is normal. You see way too many going between the ages of 3 and 4. You can do everything right and still lose them to cancer, infection, tumors, strokes, etc. I am also willing to bet that most of them that made it over the age of 5 did not have Vet attention as regular Vet attention is not the norm in this hobby, nor do I think regular visits are needed. Fecals, yes, the stress of dragging them to the Vet for most animals, no.
 
12 to 15 yrs is average here for experienced keepers, one of mine is 9.
American feeding trends in comparison to ours seem to dramatically shorten lives.
We tend not to pump them full of food during the first 12 months to reach breeding size early, though sadly that trend seems to be catching on here now.
Most American beardies look fat to me.
If you look at beardies in the wild, you simply dont see fat ones, and by experience, keeping them on the lean side seems to work well for them.
Perhaps its this tendency to overfeed thats having the effect you describe.

You might be right about that. In captivity they have an abundance of food, more so than in the wild. I read an interesting article that said humans die after consuming and processing a certain amount of calories. Not sure how many I read about it several years ago. Maybe the same applies to reptiles/cham's.
 
You can do everything right and still lose them to cancer, infection, tumors, strokes, etc....

We are not the only species affected by our trashing the environment, I'll best human health issues are caused just as much by our unnatural living, chemical dependancy etc.
Its not a leap to suspect our pets are likewise affected.
I recently read a vet article about the rise in tumours/cancers in dogs related to human manufactured diets.
Pesticides etc in our environment can and do effect the entire food chain.
 
I am afraid we really don't know what is normal. You see way too many going between the ages of 3 and 4. You can do everything right and still lose them to cancer, infection, tumors, strokes, etc. I am also willing to bet that most of them that made it over the age of 5 did not have Vet attention as regular Vet attention is not the norm in this hobby, nor do I think regular visits are needed. Fecals, yes, the stress of dragging them to the Vet for most animals, no.

I think the reason allot die early is because they do not have vet check ups and by the time they do take them it's too late and often they go to a vet that knows nothing about chameleons. I think the females often die early because they are not provided with the proper laying environment and often breed to much and overfeeding is a big problem. From what Lynda said she did use a vet for hers quite often. Dr. A recommends 6 month check ups and my guys love going to the vet and they are not stressed at all but I don't stick them in a box either. Luie sit on his tree in the exam room and when Dr. A comes in he reaches and grabs for him.
 
We also have to think about the fact that we're taking natural selection out of the picture - Julirs, if I recall you lost one out of 69 baby veileds not long after hatching, had one with potential metabolic disorder (Hershey) and the rest were shipped off to new homes and still doing well last I heard - in nature, you wouldn't be seeing survival rates anything remotely like that and, while they're all healthy and wonderful animals, doubtless some are allowed to flourish under human care that wouldn't have made it in the wild (poor competitors for food and territory, e.g.). Our data on pets' lifespans incorporates both those animals that would have been "winners" in the wild, and those that may have been "losers", and this can confound matters.
 
We also have to think about the fact that we're taking natural selection out of the picture - Julirs, if I recall you lost one out of 69 baby veileds not long after hatching, had one with potential metabolic disorder (Hershey) and the rest were shipped off to new homes and still doing well last I heard - in nature, you wouldn't be seeing survival rates anything remotely like that and, while they're all healthy and wonderful animals, doubtless some are allowed to flourish under human care that wouldn't have made it in the wild (poor competitors for food and territory, e.g.). Our data on pets' lifespans incorporates both those animals that would have been "winners" in the wild, and those that may have been "losers", and this can confound matters.

Excellent, excellent point. We are certainly not dealing with survival and breeding of the fittest in captivity.
 
don't wanna get all biblical, but humans too lived for 900+ years according to the bible. Methuselah. lol. .....


Must be something to be said for a diet of locust and honey!
Bet it didn't say he was as crazy as a sh@thouse rat by the time he clocked off!
I would be! :D
 
I think the reason allot die early is because they do not have vet check ups and by the time they do take them it's too late and often they go to a vet that knows nothing about chameleons. I think the females often die early because they are not provided with the proper laying environment and often breed to much and overfeeding is a big problem. From what Lynda said she did use a vet for hers quite often. Dr. A recommends 6 month check ups and my guys love going to the vet and they are not stressed at all but I don't stick them in a box either. Luie sit on his tree in the exam room and when Dr. A comes in he reaches and grabs for him.

Well-I guess one HUGE problem is that there are so few educated chameleon experienced vets out there. I can tell you that I work closely with my Vet and for the issues I have encountered neither she nor I (nor Dr. Alfonso for that matter) could have saved some of the cases I have taken on.
 
lol, yeah. I think anybody these days would go crazy.

hallenhe brought up a good point too. There is no natural selection when all cb survive.
 
I wonder if anyone has ever actually studied the longevity of wild chams by inserting tracking chips? This would produce more realist results by averages if cause of death could be determined as other than injury/predation/seasonal starvation etc.
Its only in the unnatural captive environ, as hallenhe said that we can gain longevity records but ofcourse these are not valid data.
The real question is how long can the animal be kept alive (extremes) by any means, (its potential)
which to my mind is a bit pointless.
All creatues live and die according to their kind, this is the way of things.
At what point is your miraculously long lived cham, no longer 'living', Quality of life over longevity.
 
In the beginning all the chameleons I got were WC's and I let them acclimate for a few weeks as long as they didn't appear to be sick and then I would take a fecal sample to the vet and have the necessary treatment done.

As time went on, I didn't take many unless there was an obvious reason to. I began to be able to tell which ones should go and which ones didn't need to go. I worried about the stress and also that they might pick something up at the vets.

Of course, I always took/take ones that are not doing well.

I also took most of the bodies for necropsy, as I've said before.
 
Back
Top Bottom