urgent help please dying babies!

[AndrewBrian]

hello guys i managed to successfully hatch panther chameleon eggs. I live in the philippines with very tropical weather. The hatchlings are about 3 weeks old and have been perfectly fine until this week. I left for an out of the country trip and when i came home i got feedback from people that the temperature these days have been really hot 35-39 degrees celsius... some of the babies i've relocated to new homes... all of a sudden i had 2 mortalities in the last 2 days... i received a phone call from 2 friends that gave me the news that their babies died as well it's breaking my heart... what is the allowed or tolearable temperature for baby panthers? i have an outdoor setup and i neither use basking lights or uvb bulbs please help guys... trying to save as many babies as possible i have 10 left still strong and healthy....
my friend said his baby was perfectly well 9am and eating pinheads like crazy... 2 hours later it was dead and the pinheads ended up eating the chameleon... i find no other reason to assume that it was heat stroke.. temperature at his house was 35 degrees celsius

 

[JosieJobo]

not sure what to say

Maybe bring them inside and mist them make sure they get planty of water to drink, and plenty of shade to hide in , or a fan near by??? Not much help sorry but I hope they will be ok x

 

[Psychobunny]

You need to bring your babies in out of the heat, 35c is way to much and they will dehydrate even if not directly in the sun.

A temp of 28c with shade and water would be ideal, above 30c is too hot esp. with low RH.

 

[AndrewBrian]

thats the problem guys indoor temperature is 35 degrees... outdoor in the sun reaches 39 weather's been insane maybe aircondition them huh?

 

[AndrewBrian]

if i can create an environment of 24-28 degrees indoor for them do i still need a basking lamp or will a uvb bulb do? what number should i use? sorry hehe i've always done outdoor so i used neither.... any suggestions guys? indoors it can get pretty hot still... i think my only option is airconditioning

 

[Psychobunny]

Yes, you will still need a basking and of course a UVB.
You want to provide a temp gradient, so they can find the temp they like.

Babies do not need a lot of heat, so 28c at their basking spot is good, but they should be able to move to a cooler spot, esp at bedtime, when they need a temp drop.
You will need that air conditioner for sure, or they will never get the low temps they need at night.

A tube style UVB 5% is good for babies.

Avoid the compact UVB bulbs as they tend to be too directional and only cover a small area, they are also too bright for a babies eyes.

 

[AndrewBrian]

thanks a lot! how about basking lamp? what type? hehehe just another random question how many pinheads does a 3 week old baby eat in a day? is it ok to feed them whenever there are no more pinheads?

 

[reptoman]

You do not need a basking light for neonate panthers. I keep baby panthers in open air bins with branches and plastic plants. A single used reptisun 5,0 UVB is directly over the bins with another 6500K light for brightness. I mist them 4 times daily and feed 1 to 2 time with appropriately sized feeders. I do not provide a basking light until they are moved to screen cages at 3 months of age. The ambient temp at the height of the day is 80F or 27C. A little warmer or a little cooler depending on the time of day.

 

[fluxlizard]

You do not need a basking light for neonate panthers.

That will work and works for many, but seeing as you are in the phillipines- as an alternative-I start my babies in small screen cages 2 or 3 feet long x 12 to 17 inches wide and high- notice I keep the cage horizontally oriented- this helps keep tiny food items close at hand. Some insects creep out of the screen, in my situation (lizard building or outdoors) that is OK. In my house- would not be OK . I do put a little insect food (bit of veggie or banana or other fruit) in one corner of the cage to bait the insects back in and to encourage them to hang out there in that spot where the babies can find them.

The horizontal orientation also provides for a thermal gradient from side to side. Indoors during the winter I use heat lamps with the same temps as adults from day 1. They thermoregulate just as well as adults do from day 1- it is an essential instinct that is just as mandatory as the instinct to feed and drink and they understand how to do it well. The problem to look out for- sometimes keepers do not understand so well how to provide them the opportunity they need to thermoregulate properly- wee babies can cook and dehyrate fast if you force them to remain in high temps without escape. Fill the enclosure completely with lots of tiny twigs so the available space can be used effectively and so warm and cool areas can be used, insects are never out of reach, etc.

If I lived in the phillipines, I'd have them outdoors from day 1. Just my opinion, but that is what I do here in the summer even when temps are in the upper 90s to near 100 (what's that C? 38?). I put a board over 1/2 to 2/3 of the top of the baby enclosures so they always have shadow, and use a patio mister nozzles (ebay cheap) hooked up to the garden hose to provide a mist that cools the enclosures some and always makes cool and wet available to the babies during the heat of the day, as well as making sure part of the cages are dry and shade and dry and sun so the lizards aren't forced to remain damp or sunny or shady or dry. The mist cools the cages plenty and uses very little water. On days near 100- it comes on when temps climb mid 80s and remains until they drop again late evening- so some days in the heat of the summer it can be on for many hours each day and dry each night and early morning. They always have choices. They thrive under these conditions. It seems kind of odd to me to try and artificially recreate a natural environment that is freely available.

You may want to experiment though, keeping them safe indoors first and trying out an outdoor cage and checking temps before moving them..

 

[AndrewBrian]

thanks guys the information was very useful.... im just worried about the insane temperature here even indoors... makes me think the babies are suffering from heat stroke... i dont know how better to explain to my friend why his baby(which was plump and perfectly fine) 9am in the morning was happily eating pinheads and be dead by 12 noon... what could have been the cause?

 

[Kate]

Babies dying babies could be caused by any number if things. Because more than one dies suggests that they may have been sickly in the first place. Babies under the age of four months are very vulnerable.

 

[fluxlizard]

i dont know how better to explain to my friend why his baby(which was plump and perfectly fine) 9am in the morning was happily eating pinheads and be dead by 12 noon... what could have been the cause?
Reply With Quote

Could very well be the heat if he can't escape it. I wouldn't do what I do without misters running...

Could be any number of other things as well though...

 

[AndrewBrian]

yeah big probability is the heat... second would be maybe the size of the hatchlings they came early 5 and a half months of incubation. The eggs when they hatched were probably only half the size of my other female chameleon's eggs

 

[Mike Fisher]

thanks guys the information was very useful.... im just worried about the insane temperature here even indoors... makes me think the babies are suffering from heat stroke... i dont know how better to explain to my friend why his baby(which was plump and perfectly fine) 9am in the morning was happily eating pinheads and be dead by 12 noon... what could have been the cause?

Dehydration. You can keep them in your heat wave as long as they get shade and frequent mistings. Mistings are super important for baby chams in the heat. They can die within hours without it.

 

[Camsofcali]

I also use the same method as Reptoman and it works very well. Reptomans a smart dude and knows his stuff! Just make sure to keep a max of about 5 to a bin depending on size of the bin and their aggression level towards each other. Congrats on getting captive bred panthers going in the phillipines!!!