Update on melon

[Lennoncham]

As some of you know in April I got a female veiled Cham from petsmart because I couldn't leave her in the poor conditions she was being kept in. Well she has been doing great. Eating like a champ and growing. She has started to become a bit more friendly. She will actually take worms from my hand now. I just moved her into her new xl reptibreeze last week. And she is getting ready to lay her first clutch. Any advice on what to do while she is laying would be much appreciated. she hasn't gone in her laying bin yet. I noticed her gravid colours on I think Tuesday or Wednesday of last week (aug 8-9). How long will it take until she is ready to lay? I have read they will lay about 30 days after being mated but is it the same amount of time to produce infertile eggs?

 

[TheFlash]

Be very careful with store-bought females. I bought two females from petco, both unfortunately died from a condition called follicular stasis. It's an egg binding condition where the follicles in the chameleon don't become eggs, creating a blockage. It's caused by malnutrition in early life, followed by proper nutrition as it continues to develops. If she starts to lay, and starts digging tunnels, but fails, take her to the vet. Once egg bound, they can die within 48 hours. I encourage you to research it.

 

[Lennoncham]

Be very careful with store-bought females. I bought two females from petco, both unfortunately died from a condition called follicular stasis. It's an egg binding condition where the follicles in the chameleon don't become eggs, creating a blockage. It's caused by malnutrition in early life, followed by proper nutrition as it continues to develops. If she starts to lay, and starts digging tunnels, but fails, take her to the vet. Once egg bound, they can die within 48 hours. I encourage you to research it.

Thanks for the info. I have heard of egg binding but not follicular stasis. I will definitely be researching about that.

 

[bobbydigital]

@kinyonga @opheliaeatsbugs
Sorry to bug

 

[kinyonga]

Bobbydigital...you didnt bug me!
Lennoncham...glad you have a laying bin in her cage! That's important!

It's not easy to determine the lay date for a veiled chameleon that wasn't mated. They typically lay three or four clutches a year when not mated and when their diet, etc isn't controlled to slow them down.

This is the way it should go though...as the female approaches the day to lay, she should become restless and look for a place to lay the eggs, get fatter (of course) and drink more. She may decrease the amount she eats near the time too. She should start to dig eventually. She may dig several test holes before selecting one and digging it until she is satisfied with it. While she is digging DO NOT let her see you watching her...it will make her abandon the hole. Once satisfied she will turn around butt down in the hole...likely in the evening...and lay the eggs. Sometimes it's quick and sometimes it takes all night. She should then fill the hole in and tamp it down and return to the branches hungry and thirsty.

If she becomes lethargic, sits low in the cage, sleeps during the day, etc then she might be heading towards eggbinding. She will need a vet ASAP then.

 

[opheliaeatsbugs]

Happy to help - although @kinyonga is the expert to listen to. I took all of her advice as I was waiting for Ophelia to lay and we were successful.

Ophelia did not slow down on eating - eating everything I gave her. I keep a poop journal (pics of poop) and gave her a few more blue horned worms if I felt she needed them during the week. She was still active (almost crazy/pacing) and wanted to come out, so I took her into the sun whenever I could. From the time she starting digging, it was a month before she laid the eggs. In that month, I took her to the vet 2x and weighed her once a week. She was about 160+ grams around the time she laid - she is normally around 120 grams.

I did have trouble with her laybin. I had it properly set up, but the holes I had drilled in the bottom, sides, etc. were not big enough to drain the water (she has an automatic mister) fully, so when she dug to the bottom for the first time, she had 4 inches of water and quit. I was glad I checked. If I had totally left her alone at that time, I wouldn't have caught the problem. So I dug out all the dirt/water, drilled new, bigger holes and filled it all back in. I have never been in such an anxiety/panic as that afternoon. I was sure I had screwed it all up for her. And it was the longest month of my life. I had her cage covered, but kept the same schedule of auto-lights and auto-misting. I fed her as usual and scooped out poop at that time. I used a feeding bowl. She got big and clumsy at the end so I didn't want to risk her falling trying to catch bugs loose in the cage.

Other than that... I just tried to breathe and not stress. I wish I had set up a video cam, but maybe next time

Good luck!

 

[kinyonga]

Opheliaeatsbugs...thanks for the vote of confidence. I still have lots to learn!

 

[Angelwolf]

@opheliaeatsbugs , wasn't that her first clutch ever? Hopefully they will come easier for her now!

 

[opheliaeatsbugs]

@opheliaeatsbugs , wasn't that her first clutch ever? Hopefully they will come easier for her now!

Unless I spay her!

 

[Angelwolf]

That's right. I remember you discussing that.

 

[Lennoncham]

Bobbydigital...you didnt bug me!
Lennoncham...glad you have a laying bin in her cage! That's important!

It's not easy to determine the lay date for a veiled chameleon that wasn't mated. They typically lay three or four clutches a year when not mated and when their diet, etc isn't controlled to slow them down.

This is the way it should go though...as the female approaches the day to lay, she should become restless and look for a place to lay the eggs, get fatter (of course) and drink more. She may decrease the amount she eats near the time too. She should start to dig eventually. She may dig several test holes before selecting one and digging it until she is satisfied with it. While she is digging DO NOT let her see you watching her...it will make her abandon the hole. Once satisfied she will turn around butt down in the hole...likely in the evening...and lay the eggs. Sometimes it's quick and sometimes it takes all night. She should then fill the hole in and tamp it down and return to the branches hungry and thirsty.

If she becomes lethargic, sits low in the cage, sleeps during the day, etc then she might be heading towards eggbinding. She will need a vet ASAP then.

Thanks for the info. I have read most of that before on some of your other posts. The part I forgot about was being lethargic and sleeping being indicators of eggbinding. So far she seems to still be very active so I will keep and eye on her. I also have a webcam setup so her not seeing me looking at her is not a problem.

Happy to help - although @kinyonga is the expert to listen to. I took all of her advice as I was waiting for Ophelia to lay and we were successful.

Ophelia did not slow down on eating - eating everything I gave her. I keep a poop journal (pics of poop) and gave her a few more blue horned worms if I felt she needed them during the week. She was still active (almost crazy/pacing) and wanted to come out, so I took her into the sun whenever I could. From the time she starting digging, it was a month before she laid the eggs. In that month, I took her to the vet 2x and weighed her once a week. She was about 160+ grams around the time she laid - she is normally around 120 grams.

I did have trouble with her laybin. I had it properly set up, but the holes I had drilled in the bottom, sides, etc. were not big enough to drain the water (she has an automatic mister) fully, so when she dug to the bottom for the first time, she had 4 inches of water and quit. I was glad I checked. If I had totally left her alone at that time, I wouldn't have caught the problem. So I dug out all the dirt/water, drilled new, bigger holes and filled it all back in. I have never been in such an anxiety/panic as that afternoon. I was sure I had screwed it all up for her. And it was the longest month of my life. I had her cage covered, but kept the same schedule of auto-lights and auto-misting. I fed her as usual and scooped out poop at that time. I used a feeding bowl. She got big and clumsy at the end so I didn't want to risk her falling trying to catch bugs loose in the cage.

Other than that... I just tried to breathe and not stress. I wish I had set up a video cam, but maybe next time

Good luck!

Thanks. I actually seen your post about the water collecting in her laying bin and I had a similar thing happen not to long after I read that. Luckily she wasn't gravid at the time so I had time to pull her laying bin out and drill some more holes in it. I'm also setting up a backup just incase. Good tip on the feeding bowl. I will put one in her cage for her. I have one for worms but the crickets can jump out of it so i will put a deeper one in.

 

[Lennoncham]

I came home from work and melon didn't eat anything today. All the crickets I put in this morning were still in her cage and a couple from yesterday. I wonder if she is further along then I thought and just didn't notice she was gravid before. Or if it could be for another reason. She still seems active. Not sleeping or lethargic and up at the top of her cage moving around.

 

[Lennoncham]

Melon finnaly laid her first clutch!

On Friday afternoon I heard her making a bunch of noise so I checked my webcam and she was busy digging a hole. I guess she didn't like the laying bins I had in there because she decide to dig in one of her plants. I let her be and kept checking on her on the web cam. She ended up sleeping In Her hole for the night then woke up the next morning and finished digging and laid her eggs. She then covered up her hole and slowly made her way back up to the top of her cage a lot skinnier and covered in dirt.

I waited about 10 mins after she got back to the top and turned in the mister for 15 mins so she could get a good drink and get cleaned off. About 15 mins after the mister was off I put some crickets in which she eagerly ate.

I waited a bit and took out the plant she laid in and dug up the eggs. She ended up laying 50 eggs. It was a long six months of waiting since I first noticed her gravid colours and made this post. I'm glad she finnaly laid them and she seems to be doing good.

 

[kinyonga]

Glad she finally laid them! Keep an eye on her for the next few days to make sure she is behaving normally again. That's a fairly big clutch....you might want to watch how much you're feeding her starting now so the next clutch h will be smaller. You can expect another clutch in about 5 months more or less. They can lay 2 or 3 clutches a year when not mated..

 

[Lennoncham]

Glad she finally laid them! Keep an eye on her for the next few days to make sure she is behaving normally again. That's a fairly big clutch....you might want to watch how much you're feeding her starting now so the next clutch h will be smaller. You can expect another clutch in about 5 months more or less. They can lay 2 or 3 clutches a year when not mated..

Ya she seems to be normal. She's moving around, basking, eating, and drinking. I know they can still act normal for a bit but still have eggs in them. And with her big clutch size I am a bit worried.

Ya I had her on the female diet but I guess the extra hornworms and bsfl I was giving her was a bit to much. I wasn't expecting that many eggs and was supprised When they kept coming.

Is it normal for them to still show the yellow and blue spots after they have laid?

 

[kinyonga]

It is normal for them to show the bright colors for a while after laying the clutch.

If she's healthy she can handle a large clutches but to continue to produce large clutches can drain them and constant overfeeding can lead to MBD prolapses and egg binding in many of them.