update on 4*2*4 cage branches and lighting

[corynnonthecob]

Hello All! im back with an update! i added a few bigger plants and changed the lighting on my big cage, and added more branches. it is not nearly as awesome as I need it to be, but it's getting there! it's an update on my cage and my chameleon's symptoms.

the big cage has a SANSI flood light, given as an early Christmas present. I'm still using the blue grow light right now, in addition, for optimal growth and plant establishment. I'm fertilizing the plants and working on getting some rocks for over the dirt (big ones she can't eat). i have a timer going already so the lights don't keep her up or get forgotten with my school days being wack.

the cage has 5 more sticks, making the total 8, (sounds pitiful, but some are a big branches with many smaller branches spreading out) ranging from top to bottom. it has plants all the way to the top of the cage, starting from close to the bottom. there are 3 new plants. a gardenia, a norfolk island pine, and a baby ficus I previously had in my window.

But corynn! what about the sap? i have no idea. i found a list of safe plants and it had norfolk island pine on there, but every site I look up on the computer I have (issued from my school district) is blocked. How on earth sap means mature content, I don't know, but I need a bit of guidance. the spines are a good spacing for hands and the leaves are soft and bendy, but I don't know how safe this is sap-wise, and if she'll eat it.

Update on symptoms: Good News! my baby girl is doing great. i put that UVB light on her and she seemed to be attracted to it almost immediately. she has been perkier and sleeping less during the day, down to only once since I have found her asleep, and she woke back up right when I walked up. she is eating crickets and black soldier fly larvae religiously and has supplements of reptivite and D3 added into the mix for supplementation. she's been having poops with almost no orange and I see her eat and drink a lot. she even ate from our hands!

thanks everybody! you are all very helpful and I would be nowhere without you guys!

 

[nightanole]

Well bees eat it, so it should be safe.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Collecting is not the same as eating/ingesting. AFAIK, they do not eat the resin.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=why+do+bees+collect+resin?
Since they use it for pest & pathogen defense, that suggests to me it's toxic.
FWIW, Norfolk Island Pine is toxic to cats & dogs.

AFAIK, madcham.de is the only site/list that claims they are chameleon-safe, and IDK why.

IMO, there are lots of other (better) choices for center piece plants.

 

[corynnonthecob]

Collecting is not the same as eating/ingesting. AFAIK, they do not eat the resin.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=why+do+bees+collect+resin?
Since they use it for pest & pathogen defense, that suggests to me it's toxic.
FWIW, Norfolk Island Pine is toxic to cats & dogs.

AFAIK, madcham.de is the only site/list that claims they are chameleon-safe, and IDK why.

IMO, there are lots of other (better) choices for center piece plants.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
can you reccomend some that might be inexpensive and/or available in the south?

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

the big cage has a SANSI flood light, given as an early Christmas present.

Sansi makes great plant lights, but the floods have a 60° beam angle, which may not hit the entire enclosure. I have a 48 x 24 x 48 enclosure, and I use 2 of their 70W rectangular lights, which are working out great.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/simple-uvb-fixture-supports.177896/

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
can you reccomend some that might be inexpensive and/or available in the south?

You can usually find some deals ($15 or less) at the big-box stores (Home Despot, Lowes, Wallymart). What they have—and when—can vary.

 

[Jd♂️♂️]

Hello All! im back with an update! i added a few bigger plants and changed the lighting on my big cage, and added more branches. it is not nearly as awesome as I need it to be, but it's getting there! it's an update on my cage and my chameleon's symptoms.

the big cage has a SANSI flood light, given as an early Christmas present. I'm still using the blue grow light right now, in addition, for optimal growth and plant establishment. I'm fertilizing the plants and working on getting some rocks for over the dirt (big ones she can't eat). i have a timer going already so the lights don't keep her up or get forgotten with my school days being wack.

the cage has 5 more sticks, making the total 8, (sounds pitiful, but some are a big branches with many smaller branches spreading out) ranging from top to bottom. it has plants all the way to the top of the cage, starting from close to the bottom. there are 3 new plants. a gardenia, a norfolk island pine, and a baby ficus I previously had in my window.

But corynn! what about the sap? i have no idea. i found a list of safe plants and it had norfolk island pine on there, but every site I look up on the computer I have (issued from my school district) is blocked. How on earth sap means mature content, I don't know, but I need a bit of guidance. the spines are a good spacing for hands and the leaves are soft and bendy, but I don't know how safe this is sap-wise, and if she'll eat it.

Update on symptoms: Good News! my baby girl is doing great. i put that UVB light on her and she seemed to be attracted to it almost immediately. she has been perkier and sleeping less during the day, down to only once since I have found her asleep, and she woke back up right when I walked up. she is eating crickets and black soldier fly larvae religiously and has supplements of reptivite and D3 added into the mix for supplementation. she's been having poops with almost no orange and I see her eat and drink a lot. she even ate from our hands!

thanks everybody! you are all very helpful and I would be nowhere without you guys!

Is that a Christmas tree lol can they even have those or they none toxic?

 

[corynnonthecob]

Is that a Christmas tree lol can they even have those or they none toxic?

its a christmas-y tree, but i don't think its exactly a Christmas tree type, but it is sold as a Christmas present. it was conveniently waiting for me. maybe ill have to keep it in my yard it was 20 bucks, I don't have a job atm and I cant get any other really expensive plants.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

$20 isn't expensive for a plant.

 

[corynnonthecob]

$20 isn't expensive for a plant.

i literally have 7 dollars in my bank account of spending money. the rest I need to save for other things. so actually, 20 dollars is 100%< over my budget.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Then I'd say you've got a problem. This isn't the only incidental you're going to encounter, and some are going to be much more expensive than $20.

 

[Jd♂️♂️]

Then I'd say you've got a problem. This isn't the only incidental you're going to encounter, and some are going to be much more expensive than $20.

Word I agree like vet bills if they run into any issues which I hope they don’t my valid is so spoiled but hey if you love your animal you would do anything for them guess some ppl just value the creature then mabe you shouldn’t have a reptile sry for being blunt

 

[corynnonthecob]

Then I'd say you've got a problem. This isn't the only incidental you're going to encounter, and some are going to be much more expensive than $20.

Word I agree like vet bills if they run into any issues which I hope they don’t my valid is so spoiled but hey if you love your animal you would do anything for them guess some ppl just value the creature then mabe you shouldn’t have a reptile sry for being blunt

I almost had a stroke reading that message, so correct me if I misunderstood you, but I believe you just suggested that I didn't value my chameleon and shouldn't own a reptile. That is incredibly rude.

I came to y'all a while back for advice on my sick chameleon. People INSISTED that I expand my cage, add more plants, include more branches, and get better lighting in order to increase her quality of life. I did exactly what you guys asked. I dropped about $100 on new plants and lights, and spent at least 6 hours cutting, cleaning, arranging, and securing several new branches. I came to give a cheerful update on my situation and was instead told that I shouldn't own a reptile. Why? Did you even read my message about all of the time and money I just put into renovating my reptile's enclosure? I have spent more money on making sure that my chameleon is healthy and comfortable than I have spent on myself, and I don't appreciate being insulted solely based on a comment about a plant. I came to y'all for help and support and I really appreciate the tips I was given, but I don't see the reason or benefit from the condescending and mean comments.

Last time I came to y'all, you made me feel like a negligent and abusive pet owner. I did everything I could to correct all of my mistakes, and I come back with updates about my efforts and get chastised yet again. I am sorry guys, I am only a 16 year old in high school. I can only do so much, and especially given my situation, I believe I am providing above and beyond care for my pet. I just wanted to share with y'all and celebrate my chameleon's better health, but clearly, this isn't a positive community where I can be accepted.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

I almost had a stroke reading that message, so correct me if I misunderstood you, but I believe you just suggested that I didn't value my chameleon and shouldn't own a reptile. That is incredibly rude.

Speaking for myself, you misunderstood. I didn't say anything of the kind.

Keeping a chameleon is an expensive proposition. You can find all kinds of numbers, but the consensus of realistic costs (supported by real-life numbers from many members here) range from $500-$1000+, not including the chameleon.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=cost+of+owning+a+chameleon

I've a partial list of posts from the archives that support this, but it is rather long, so I won't post it here unless specifically requested. The same info can be found by searching the archives.

I came to y'all a while back for advice on my sick chameleon. People INSISTED that I expand my cage, add more plants, include more branches, and get better lighting in order to increase her quality of life. I did exactly what you guys asked. I dropped about $100 on new plants and lights, and spent at least 6 hours cutting, cleaning, arranging, and securing several new branches. I came to give a cheerful update on my situation and was instead told that I shouldn't own a reptile. Why? Did you even read my message about all of the time and money I just put into renovating my reptile's enclosure? I have spent more money on making sure that my chameleon is healthy and comfortable than I have spent on myself, and I don't appreciate being insulted solely based on a comment about a plant. I came to y'all for help and support and I really appreciate the tips I was given, but I don't see the reason or benefit from the condescending and mean comments.

Last time I came to y'all, you made me feel like a negligent and abusive pet owner. I did everything I could to correct all of my mistakes, and I come back with updates about my efforts and get chastised yet again. I am sorry guys, I am only a 16 year old in high school. I can only do so much, and especially given my situation, I believe I am providing above and beyond care for my pet. I just wanted to share with y'all and celebrate my chameleon's better health, but clearly, this isn't a positive community where I can be accepted.

It's not about YOU; it's about the health and well-being of the animal in your care. You're not the first—nor will you be the last—person who has found their way here after figuring out—or realizing after they get here—that they are woefully mis-/un-informed, and in some cases, in over their heads.

You're also not the first 16 year old high school student, nor the first that's short on funds. We try to help everyone—even those we may feel reticent about.

Those are not condemnations or insults; they may be hard truths.

The folks here do their very best to try to help you do what's best for your chameleon. That's not rudeness—it's passionate concern. Sometimes the truth is hard to hear and/or accept.

You asked where to get "inexpensive" plants (instead of asking where to get FREE plants) and I gave you the most inexpensive sources I knew of, and a video on how to make the most of that. If you had been more candid in the first place and asked where to get FREE plants, my suggestion would have been (and still is) ask/barter with family, friends, & neighbors, or dig some up where it's legal to do so.

 

[corynnonthecob]

If you didn't want to insult me and instead cared only about the well-being of my pet, you are going about it the wrong way. The way you answered my comment would put anyone on the defense, and it makes them want to dig in their heels to prove that they are right instead of taking your advice. That is the exact response my whole family had to both your comments. Our gut reaction was "screw you, and who cares what you say because you are a jerk". If you really wanted to help my animal, you would have commented in a way that wasn't so passive-aggressive. Our reaction may not be the reaction of an angel who will just take other people's crap, but coming onto a public forum, you should expect regular people who will take your comments exactly how you write them. Just because you know more than me on the subject doesn't mean you are better than me, which is exactly how your comments sound. If that wasn't how you wanted me to take it, then you shouldn't have written it that way.

The problem wasn't with your suggestions of where to find inexpensive plants, it was obviously the comments on the budget I have for plants. If I said I wanted free plants because I had no money to buy any, you would have responded the same. A candid comment would have changed nothing.

And also, obviously I wasn't talking about your comment when I said that it was suggested I shouldn't own a reptile. I was talking about the comment that I quoted, which literally said that. I thought that was obvious but I guess to specify, to Jd♂️♂️ who made the comment and you who defended as "passionate concern", I ask you: in what world do you think that would cause the average human to respond in a positive way and result in helping the animal? If you seriously believe y'all responded in a constructive way, then you maybe shouldn't be allowed to comment on other's forums. This isn't condemnation or an insult; though it may be a hard truth.

 

[bbyoda]

Cage is looking beautiful. I love love love Norfolk pines. I personally wouldn't risk having one in with a chameleon due to the sap. Makes a great house plant or outdoor tree. On Next Door ask people for free plants or cuttings and explain that you're 16, leaning about gardening and chameleon husbandry, and need free clippings or plants. The old plant ladies and men in your neighborhood will help.

The tough thing about the forums is that it's all text and hard to interpret tone. Everyone here does truly want what's best for the chameleons. It's also hard to put in work advising people day in and day out seeing similar issues and sick chameleons and sometimes we get gruff. You clearly are putting in time and effort to make things better and doing the best you can given your situation. I commend you for that.

Let's restart and try to shift the tone on your thread if we can and assume the best of everyone, so we can make our community better together and make your experience here better too. We don't want you to feel neglectful or ashamed, just aware of things that need adjusted for proper husbandry.

 

[Jd♂️♂️]

If you didn't want to insult me and instead cared only about the well-being of my pet, you are going about it the wrong way. The way you answered my comment would put anyone on the defense, and it makes them want to dig in their heels to prove that they are right instead of taking your advice. That is the exact response my whole family had to both your comments. Our gut reaction was "screw you, and who cares what you say because you are a jerk". If you really wanted to help my animal, you would have commented in a way that wasn't so passive-aggressive. Our reaction may not be the reaction of an angel who will just take other people's crap, but coming onto a public forum, you should expect regular people who will take your comments exactly how you write them. Just because you know more than me on the subject doesn't mean you are better than me, which is exactly how your comments sound. If that wasn't how you wanted me to take it, then you shouldn't have written it that way.

The problem wasn't with your suggestions of where to find inexpensive plants, it was obviously the comments on the budget I have for plants. If I said I wanted free plants because I had no money to buy any, you would have responded the same. A candid comment would have changed nothing.

And also, obviously I wasn't talking about your comment when I said that it was suggested I shouldn't own a reptile. I was talking about the comment that I quoted, which literally said that. I thought that was obvious but I guess to specify, to Jd♂️♂️ who made the comment and you who defended as "passionate concern", I ask you: in what world do you think that would cause the average human to respond in a positive way and result in helping the animal? If you seriously believe y'all responded in a constructive way, then you maybe shouldn't be allowed to comment on other's forums. This isn't condemnation or an insult; though it may be a hard truth.

You sound like drake when he cries on his track just stop complaining lol let it go

 

[Jd♂️♂️]

If you didn't want to insult me and instead cared only about the well-being of my pet, you are going about it the wrong way. The way you answered my comment would put anyone on the defense, and it makes them want to dig in their heels to prove that they are right instead of taking your advice. That is the exact response my whole family had to both your comments. Our gut reaction was "screw you, and who cares what you say because you are a jerk". If you really wanted to help my animal, you would have commented in a way that wasn't so passive-aggressive. Our reaction may not be the reaction of an angel who will just take other people's crap, but coming onto a public forum, you should expect regular people who will take your comments exactly how you write them. Just because you know more than me on the subject doesn't mean you are better than me, which is exactly how your comments sound. If that wasn't how you wanted me to take it, then you shouldn't have written it that way.

The problem wasn't with your suggestions of where to find inexpensive plants, it was obviously the comments on the budget I have for plants. If I said I wanted free plants because I had no money to buy any, you would have responded the same. A candid comment would have changed nothing.

And also, obviously I wasn't talking about your comment when I said that it was suggested I shouldn't own a reptile. I was talking about the comment that I quoted, which literally said that. I thought that was obvious but I guess to specify, to Jd♂️♂️ who made the comment and you who defended as "passionate concern", I ask you: in what world do you think that would cause the average human to respond in a positive way and result in helping the animal? If you seriously believe y'all responded in a constructive way, then you maybe shouldn't be allowed to comment on other's forums. This isn't condemnation or an insult; though it may be a hard truth.

Wasn’t looking for a response from you just more worried about your pet cause the way you seemed about money which that your problem we all just tryin lead you into the right direction