Twitching, HELP!

[Noelanigabrielle]

Today while my cham was sitting on a branch I noticed his leg twitching. It wasn't on a branch it was hanging and twitching which alarmed me. So i went over to check him. He seemed normal. I did the usual morning routine to turn the water on and what not. As I went to go feed him I noticed 2 crickets from yesterdays feeding left over. That is not normal at all. When I went to go hand feed him not only did I notice the crickets from yesterday but he didn't come to the perch like he normally does, excited to eat. When I feed him I switch off days on how i feed him, hand feed him every other day and then free range on opposite days. That way he gets to exercise his tongue muscles. Im concerned now.

A few months back (3) he was doing a weird lunge thing when he ate from my hand. This was happening for a couple weeks. I posted on hear and got some great (and also some not so great) Since then I have made changes to his lifestyle in fear it was something I did. The lunging completely cleared up, until a few days ago. It started happening again, and now this. Im concerned it was either the same thing before or something worse. I researched a bunch of stuff and find some symptoms match with MDB but I don't think thats the case as his light is not due for a change for at least 2 more months and his vitamins are where they should be and have been for at least 3 months now.
Since he's not eating like normal as of today and the twitching is paired I'm worried. The only thing I can think of is the heat here and maybe his water intake.
Anyone have any advice, suggestions or similar experiences?

**I include a picture of his cage and his hanging arm, although I couldn't manage to get a video of it twitching.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Veiled, Male, not sure exact age, but Ive had him for about a year now. I know he was at least a couple months old when I picked him up from Petsmart
• Handling - Every couple days during feeding time he climbs onto my hand/arm to eat.
• Feeding - 5-6 largel crickets a day. Dusted with calcium every day. 2 super worms or 2 hornworm sometimes one of each every day. But there is no set schedule for which ones which days. I kind of just mix it up. Multi Vitamins 2 times a month. Calcium with D3 twice a month also. Crickets get spinach and kale and also "Flunkers Gut load high calcium food" - which i know isn't a gut load, thats what the brand is called. I also sprinkle a little calcium in their diet.
• Supplements - "Repti calcium" with D3 and one without, and Rep-cal's "Herptivite" multi vits.
• Watering - Misting machine and occasional spray bottle. Mist is on duration from about 9-10 hours in one corner of the cage. The reason for this is the temperature here reaches 110 degrees on some days. I also place a frozen water bottle in the cage for cooling (I've heard that helps) although I have never actually seen him interact with it.
• Fecal Description - Same as always, brown with white tip.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - 18x18 width x 3feet height, Screen cage
• Lighting - 12 hour uvb duration, dual ceramic heat lamps. Zoo med and national geographic brand. Although I do not sun the heat lamps currently due to the heat.
• Temperature - Heat is all monitored by themostats, 2 in cage. one at the bottom and one under the heat lamps. Temp range in cage is usually 70-90 degrees but recently is higher sometimes. I try to modify it as much as possible through the day to keep it under control. Current tempt is 80 degrees.
  
• Humidity - Hydrometer to monitor, anywhere from 40%-60% depending on time of day and misting.
• Plants - all fake plants
• Placement - Corner of the room. next to/near a window but not in front of it. next to the living room couch area.
• Location - Antioch, Ca. USA

 

[carol5208]

From what I know when they hang their limbs down continually they could be in pain. I remember when my one panther had gout in his leg, he hung it down. It does not appear that your chameleon has that, so not sure what is going on, but something is obviously bothering his leg. You could take it to the vet and have it x rayed. It is possible he inured it.

 

[Andee]

It that a mister or a fogger? If it's a fogger he likely won't be getting enough to drink. He sounds and several things look like he has a form of MBD, which chronic dehydration and kidney disease is known to cause that. Either that or he could have gout that is causing pain in his legs so he isn't using it. The other thing is possibly sores in his feet. Since he has such high water content that would be clinging to branches he would climb on it could have caused issues with his feet called bumble foot. I definitely recommend a vet visit

 

[VeiledMathis]

You need to show us a better pic!

 

[Katacara]

Agreed with Andee! I think the best thing for him is a vet visit asap! Without x-rays, blood work or whatever other tests a good vet will do there is no good way for anyone to tell/diagnose what is going on with your cham by pictures alone.

I hope he gets whatever is needed to start on the road to recovery soon!!

 

[Kaden]

I'm definitely not very experienced with chams and I doubt this has anything to do with this problem, but since you bought him from Petco I highly recommend you getting a fecal done to ensure he doesn't have parasites if you haven't done so already.

 

[Andee]

Agreed with Andee! I think the best thing for him is a vet visit asap! Without x-rays, blood work or whatever other tests a good vet will do there is no good way for anyone to tell/diagnose what is going on with your cham by pictures alone.

I hope he gets whatever is needed to start on the road to recovery soon!!

I just want to clarify for the OP as to why we recommend the vet immediately. With some cases it's ok to delay and see what is truly wrong. This is not one of those cases. With something like this, it is likely relatively serious and anything affecting a chameleons legs, eyes, or tongue that isn't something like bruising or a small cut, is something that should be treated as something that needs to be treated soon. Those are all hugely important to their life. So this is definitely a vet case. We will still be here for questions since sometimes finding good chameleons vets can be hard and you may need some agreement on things, and tons of support. Sometimes venting is incredibly helpful.i hope your little man gets better with little to no issues.

 

[Katacara]

Thanks for clarifying @Andee, it's like your in my head sometimes lol!

And I completely agree about needing to vent sometimes! Please don't think we are not here for you @Noelanigabrielle because we are in whatever way we can help!

 

[Noelanigabrielle]

He doesn't hang it continuously and he is using his legs. Its just happened to be hanging which is why i noticed it when I woke up. When I took him out today he moved fine. I put him back in and his back leg hung for a second, twitching. Then he placed it on the brach again and wondered off. I attached a video. I also just checked his feet, he doesn't have any irritation, pinkness, swelling of discoloring. I am a little shaky in it so look closely. Its a fogger but water collects on the top of the cage which is what he drinks. Im curious to know what about him looks like MBD. I agree, a vet visit is needed.

 

[Noelanigabrielle]

Thanks for clarifying @Andee, it's like your in my head sometimes lol!

And I completely agree about needing to vent sometimes! Please don't think we are not here for you @Noelanigabrielle because we are in whatever way we can help!

Ive been through this forum before, with rude comments and people thinking they can say what ever they want and make you feel bad about it. I know tons of people that stay away from forums because of people like that. @Andee was there last time and actually listened and offered advice rather then slam me. I appreciate all advice and comments. Thank you all!

 

[VeiledMathis]

He doesn't hang it continuously and he is using his legs. Its just happened to be hanging which is why i noticed it when I woke up. When I took him out today he moved fine. I put him back in and his back leg hung for a second, twitching. Then he placed it on the brach again and wondered off. I attached a video. I also just checked his feet, he doesn't have any irritation, pinkness, swelling of discoloring. I am a little shaky in it so look closely. Its a fogger but water collects on the top of the cage which is what he drinks. Im curious to know what about him looks like MBD. I agree, a vet visit is needed.

His Veil is pretty deformed and it looks like his mouth is a little more opened than it should be all possible signs of MBD.

 

[Katacara]

I noticed his veil as well. It may in fact be a sign of MBD, but it could also be from constant rubbing on the top of his enclosure. Just yesterday I had to redo Peepers whole setup to accommodate his growing veil because I noticed it was rubbing when he was on his upper branches and plants.

I find your enclosure very pleasing to the eye, it is beautiful! But it may not be the best for a veiled because of the rubbing problem so you might want to consider making some adjustments there

 

[Noelanigabrielle]

I noticed his veil as well. It may in fact be a sign of MBD, but it could also be from constant rubbing on the top of his enclosure. Just yesterday I had to redo Peepers whole setup to accommodate his growing veil because I noticed it was rubbing when he was on his upper branches and plants.

I find your enclosure very pleasing to the eye, it is beautiful! But it may not be the best for a veiled because of the rubbing problem so you might want to consider making some adjustments there

Lowering the branches?

 

[Katacara]

Yes there should be plenty of clearance between the top of the enclosure and the upper most branches

 

[VeiledMathis]

Some better pics would help so we could see if it's MBD affecting him.

 

[Andee]

He look like he may have mild swelling which could be signs of mild MBD, so maybe it started when he was a youngster and since you never had him on liquid calcium?... it has gotten worse slowly, but because of the good husbandry it has progressed very slowly. Do his urates look really good? Pure white, moist and have the kind of extra liquid that comes with a really well hydrated cham?

How's his grip? Strong? Is he only resting one leg at once? And does he alternate between them? (sorry about all the questions)

 

[kinyonga]

You said..."Repti calcium" with D3 and one without, and Rep-cal's "Herptivite" multi vits." ... Do they look like ghosts?
Spinach is not a good choice for a gutload/feeding the insects. I would use an assortment of different greens and veggies and a BIT of fruit every time you feed the insects. I would use...dandelion greens, kale, endive, escarole, collards, squash, zucchini, carrots, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, berries, melon, apples, pears, etc. No or almost no spinach, cabbage, broccoli, and no other cruciferous veggies.

You said..."Misting machine and occasional spray bottle. Mist is on duration from about 9-10 hours in one corner of the cage. The reason for this is the temperature here reaches 110 degrees on some days."...I would add a dripper that drips at the rate of one or two drips a second. Imho you need to get that temperature down to the 80's F. How long at each misting is the mister on for?

You said..."I also place a frozen water bottle in the cage for cooling (I've heard that helps) although I have never actually seen him interact with it."...he won't I teract with it...it would just be to lower the temperature... I assume you already shut off the basking light and it's still too hot??

Shaking is a sign of MBD or nutrient imbalances...so are tongue issues (missing prey, not being able to shoot it out completely, etc).
It still could be something else.

 

[Graves923]

Are you using any form of UVB lighting? I dont see any in the first photo of the cage, just a basking light.

I agree with the posts above, a vet visit is what I would recommend. Something is bothering the cham if they lay on a branch and hang a leg or two off. Normal, a healthy chameleon will stand on the branch with a strong grip from all four feet.

 

[Andee]

Mercury Vapor Bulbs (if you are using that) are not recommended for chameleons unless they are in a very very large enclosure and you have an extra uvb light somewhere else.

 

[Noelanigabrielle]

We had a vet visit today. We are waiting on a blood panel to come back. In the mean time he has calcium drops we are giving him every day. He hasnt gotten any better since yesterday. Seems worse if I am to be honest. He's weaker and when he gets upset its kind of random movements, nothing with purpose. Doctor said there are no visible signs of MBD but his symptoms and how he's acting point right to it. (also if your cham is twitching thats not a good sign at all, med attention needs to happen asap) All we can do at this point is wait on the bloodwork. I showed her pictures of my set up and explained it al to her, she says everything seems perfect in my husbandry.
Also those concerned about his veil, apparently Eugene might be a girl. Hmmm. even though he has the knot on the back of his foot. Vet said you never know for sure unless they are jacksons. Not sure about that but that could also have caused the lack of calcium if "she" is in laying mode. Its the female thing which might explain the veil changing shape recently and not when he or she was younger. If its not that its his perching area and the distance from his veil to the cage, rubbing it and whatnot. Tons of stuff going on so I am kind of overwhelmed.

Are you using any form of UVB lighting? I dont see any in the first photo of the cage, just a basking light.
I agree with the posts above, a vet visit is what I would recommend. Something is bothering the cham if they lay on a branch and hang a leg or two off. Normal, a healthy chameleon will stand on the branch with a strong grip from all four feet.

That is the UVB not a basking light. Those are not up because its 100 degrees here.

You said..."Repti calcium" with D3 and one without, and Rep-cal's "Herptivite" multi vits." ... Do they look like ghosts?
Spinach is not a good choice for a gutload/feeding the insects. I would use an assortment of different greens and veggies and a BIT of fruit every time you feed the insects. I would use...dandelion greens, kale, endive, escarole, collards, squash, zucchini, carrots, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, berries, melon, apples, pears, etc. No or almost no spinach, cabbage, broccoli, and no other cruciferous veggies.

You said..."Misting machine and occasional spray bottle. Mist is on duration from about 9-10 hours in one corner of the cage. The reason for this is the temperature here reaches 110 degrees on some days."...I would add a dripper that drips at the rate of one or two drips a second. Imho you need to get that temperature down to the 80's F. How long at each misting is the mister on for?

You said..."I also place a frozen water bottle in the cage for cooling (I've heard that helps) although I have never actually seen him interact with it."...he won't I teract with it...it would just be to lower the temperature... I assume you already shut off the basking light and it's still too hot??

Shaking is a sign of MBD or nutrient imbalances...so are tongue issues (missing prey, not being able to shoot it out completely, etc).
It still could be something else.

Yes they look like ghosts. I am dusting them enough. The mister collects and drips which is where he drinks from. The mister is on constantly until the water runs out which is later in the day. Yes the basking light is off. I can't control the weather and If its 100 degrees, all i can do is try to cool it as best as possible. I live in a studio with no AC. Just fans.

He look like he may have mild swelling which could be signs of mild MBD, so maybe it started when he was a youngster and since you never had him on liquid calcium?... it has gotten worse slowly, but because of the good husbandry it has progressed very slowly. Do his urates look really good? Pure white, moist and have the kind of extra liquid that comes with a really well hydrated cham?

How's his grip? Strong? Is he only resting one leg at once? And does he alternate between them? (sorry about all the questions)

His grip yesterday was way stronger, almost normal, then it is today. It was only one leg at a time. And yes it was alternating. I told the vet what you said about a previous condition and she said it was a high probability because petsmart doesn't take care of them very well. Thats what you get for buying a cham from them.

Mercury Vapor Bulbs (if you are using that) are not recommended for chameleons unless they are in a very very large enclosure and you have an extra uvb light somewhere else.

Not sure what that is but I don't think I have that