Tumors!?

[Ninjahobo]

Meet Morph!
she is my female panther, posted through a friends letter box by previous owner (sick twisted sicko, i guess to be anyways) she has always had a lump on one side, a while back i posted about it too, anyway from my zoo vet friend we have determined it is a small tumor on her front left leg which produces a clear fluid which builds up and causes this monstrous lump!
the options i was given by the vet were leave it and drain it when i becomes to big for her to cope, or try and remove the cause, which she estimated a 85% death rate!!!!!
as morph seems to cope well with this thing we have decided to leave it and drain it as and when!

what would you guys do?

 

[melble68]

I would have my vet drain it prior to it getting to that point. Yikes. That cannot be comfortable.

 

[PoshPenny]

poor thing! I hope the more experienced Cham keepers can help you. That looks painful

 

[Ninjahobo]

i can drain it myself if need be, like i said i had a zoo vet look at it who has years of reptile experience.
we have had her months now and drained it once, just a clear fluid which comes out.
don't want to drain it to often as will cause a build up of scar tissue, at the same time don't want to let it get to big
one reptile friend suggested euthanasia straight away, but she does cope well with it, eats well, moves well and is always a good healthy looking color!
also wondering if anyone has seen this before and if so how did there cham do?

 

[PoshPenny]

Was a biopsy done on it, or labs ran on the fluid?

 

[Ninjahobo]

yeah my friends vet came back and just said drain as and when there is nothing we can do!
so i phoned my zoo vet who said she was curious about it, did tests and determined it was a tumor causing the fluid, the fluid is not bacterial or harmful in anyway just a build up of by-product from the tumor.
i have never seen this before at work or as a hobby!
vet seems to think removing the tumor will prevent the lump but survival chance is slim!

 

[PoshPenny]

Everything I know deals with humans mainly with tumors, ect.. Hopefully ferret will help you out. And give you the advise you seek. Best wishes.

 

[Dr O]

i’ve been asked to chime in—

the fluid needs to be analyzed if it already hasn’t been. for vets that tells us if it’s a transudate, modified transudate, or exudate, all of which point to differing origins. cytology and specific gravity of the fluid would be the important tests.

if it’s a cyst or seroma, they are benign but can obviously become very large and cumbersome. cysts need to removed entirely and they will heal; seromas require open drainage and secondary healing for weeks—>months.

as for this being a cancer byproduct—it would be fairly unusual to see a clear fluid; usually it would be pink/redder and all sorts of cell types in there. that’s what the cytology is for.

as to whether it really is removable or would be dangerous to do so—thats’ in the opinion of the vet doing the exam and their comfort level. perhaps it’s fixable, perhaps not. that is something i couldn’t tell from here.

o-

 

[Dr O]

also—

if it’s a cyst/seroma, it’s generally NOT a good idea to keep draining over and over as it’s a sterile pocket of fluid. at one point or another it can be very easy to introduce bacteria into that fluid pocket and then you have an abscess on your hands. in dogs/cats it’s generally cosmetic and we either take it off if we can, or drain it as little as possible.

 

[Ninjahobo]

also—

if it’s a cyst/seroma, it’s generally NOT a good idea to keep draining over and over as it’s a sterile pocket of fluid. at one point or another it can be very easy to introduce bacteria into that fluid pocket and then you have an abscess on your hands. in dogs/cats it’s generally cosmetic and we either take it off if we can, or drain it as little as possible.

thank you Dr.O
we have been given similar advice, and the vet in question is almost sure that if we remove "said lump" then the female in question will die
at the same time is it fair to keep her going as she is?
she seems to eat well, looks well and moves well, but for how long?
just looking to see if there are many other similar's out there or if this is a big one off?

 

[Dr O]

she seems to eat well, looks well and moves well, but for how long?

whenever we consider euthanasia we look at quality of life (QOL). if she is doing all of the things a normal cham does then i would say she has good QOL and she should keep going. as for how long, no one can tell you. but if the day comes where her QOL declines (stops eating, closed eyes, not drinking, losing weight), then it’s time to re-evaluate the situation.

 

[Ninjahobo]

whenever we consider euthanasia we look at quality of life (QOL). if she is doing all of the things a normal cham does then i would say she has good QOL and she should keep going. as for how long, no one can tell you. but if the day comes where her QOL declines (stops eating, closed eyes, not drinking, losing weight), then it’s time to re-evaluate the situation.

having worked with animals all my life near enough i am no stranger to euthanasia, and as time passes i feel she is getting a good quality of life.

as i said she was posted through a letter box before being handed to me so i have no clue of her background history, hopefully she lives a good long life but i also live in doubt.....it is never easy to make the decision of euthanasia....at least i know i when a good time so say enough is enough!
although i am still curious to know if anyone has had something similiar!?

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Wow! That's a huge cyst. I haven't seen that on a chameleon before. I too would be pushing for a fluid analysis to try to determine what was causing it. Is it originating completely from the leg or the chest too? If it's just the leg then that size of cyst probably has a large base which can make it tricky to fully remove, but in worst case scenario the leg could be amputated entirely to get rid of it. There are 3 legged chameleons that get around quite well! I would be draining it before it gets to that size though, as I'm sure that's not comfortable. Look how stretched the skin is... The quoted mortality rate with surgery seems pretty high. I've anesthetized my own veiled to remove multiple papilloma masses (3 or 4 at a time) and he did really well and recovered no worse for wear. The chameleon I spayed recently also did wonderfully. Exotics are definitely higher risk, but I wouldn't say that high in all situations, especially if otherwise healthy.

Can you get some better pictures of it?