Trying to breed my female ambilobe with no success.

[HUBSonDUBS]

I have a 6 month old female ambilobe that weighs 46 grams. She is showing a bright peach down her sides. I put her into the males cage and the male bobs his head and the female gets all pink and slowly walks over to him and doesn't get dark run away or hiss at him. When the male goes to get on top of her she then opens her mouth but doesn't run away or really change any color but she does puff up so I split them up. I have tried two times now and I get afraid when she opens her mouth so I take her out of the cage. What do you think my problem is?

 

[sandrachameleon]

Why would you attempt to breed such a young animal?

 

[dc2ap2]

6 months is to young you should wait, the waight is ok i like to wait till the are over 50g but 46 will work. now you might have no choich but to keep tring she may make eggs and be come egg bound if not mated!!!!! but i have never tryed to mate a young girl like that so i cant wait to here what others have to say

 

[Sancho]

6 Months?

 

[HUBSonDUBS]

Dont jump on me, I just noticed her colors changing over the last two weeks or so and figured she was ready. I put her on a scale a little over a week ago and she was 46 grams. I'm not 100% on her age but i know its near 6 or so months. I figured she may be ready with the colors and weight. I will wait awhile more then, how often do they show receptive colors and for how long? I have never seen her like this she is a bright pink and brown/black at sometimes.

 

[sandrachameleon]

Let me put it this way, many human girls start menstruating and are therefore capable of making babies at 12 years old. Does this seem like a good idea to you?

Just because she could doesnt mean a responsible owner would think she should.

Wait until your female is at least one year old and finished her own growing before you put her in contact with a male.

 

[Sancho]

Let me put it this way, many human girls start menstruating and are therefore capable of making babies at 12 years old. Does this seem like a good idea to you?

Just because she could doesnt mean a responsible owner would think she should.

Wait until your female is at least one year old and finished her own growing before you put her in contact with a male.

Very well put!

 

[Syn]

Very well put!

Definitely agreed.

 

[Chase]

Let me put it this way, many human girls start menstruating and are therefore capable of making babies at 12 years old. Does this seem like a good idea to you?

Just because she could doesnt mean a responsible owner would think she should.

Wait until your female is at least one year old and finished her own growing before you put her in contact with a male.

Very well put!

Definitely agreed.

3rdly Agree lol. It is bad for them to breed them that young. And we frown upon that in this society

 

[Chameleon24]

just a story for everyone, i have a friend who breeds veilds. he bought 2 females at a show long story short one turned out to be a male and they mated at about 4 months of age. she laid 46 fertile eggs with no problems. she is now huge and eats like a pig. she laid 72 eggs again about 4 months later. she is doing great, in the wild does a male chameleon walk up to a female and ask her age? no, he mates with her because thats what happens in the wild. if shes receptive shes ready, only she will know that. if she puffs up and open her mouth shes not ready. she maybe ready next week she maybe ready in a month.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Gonna have to disagree

Breeding in chameleons is a more a function of size, not age. I say that because most of the expectations people rely on in the hobby are based on raising chameleons indoors and under artificial light, which is much slower than if the animal has access to more natural "Madagascar-like" upbringing. In such cases, many panther chameleons are successfully bred in their fifth month. This is because many female panther chameleons can easily reach sexual maturity when raised out-of-doors here in Florida before they are six months old, while a sibling sister would need closer to eight or nine months when raised indoors.

I am often asked "when is a female chameleon ready to breed" ? Providing she has received good husbandry, the answer is "when she is ready"! In other words, when she allows herself to be bred. It is the exact mechanism that controls her in the wild, as opportunity abounds. And these animals are much more successful in the wild than in captivity. I agree that we have a higher standard to monitor a breeding attempt because a caged female cannot escape an aggressive male as a wild female can (she just falls from the tree if her warnings are not heeded). We should never allow a male to force himself upon a non-willing female. While your female seemed willing, her last-minute mouth opening is a stay-away signal, albeit somewhat unusual at that time.

weight is not always the determining factor either, as I have seen WC adult females that couldn't tip 35g, yet were gravid on import. If she was a human, I guess she would have been 4'10", but so it goes.

Focus on good husbandry with a female you want to prepare for breeding, especially nutrition, vitamins, and minerals, in the 30 days (minimum) prior to your hoping to attempt to breed her. After that, let her make the call ! Good luck.

 

[sandrachameleon]

just a story for everyone, i have a friend who breeds veilds. he bought 2 females at a show long story short one turned out to be a male and they mated at about 4 months of age. she laid 46 fertile eggs with no problems. she is now huge and eats like a pig. she laid 72 eggs again about 4 months later. she is doing great, in the wild does a male chameleon walk up to a female and ask her age? no, he mates with her because thats what happens in the wild. if shes receptive shes ready, only she will know that. if she puffs up and open her mouth shes not ready. she maybe ready next week she maybe ready in a month.

They also die young in the wild.
Are we trying to mimic the wild or are we trying to provide the best conditions possible in captivity?

And no doubt someone else will chirp up with some comment about how their female was breed at an early age and how fine and happy she remains as an old lady. I STILL THINK ITS A BAD IDEA to breed a chameleon that is young since there is no good reason to do so, plenty of good reasons to wait and no good reasons NOT to wait.

 

[Nicodemayo]

How about someone explain to him why this is such an issue instead of just posting mean smileys. Believe it or not some people may honestly be unaware of the repercussions of breeding young and I feel as a fellow keeper, we owe it to him to help educate him rather then basically just calling him an idiot for breeding so young. Hubs, the reason you should you wait on breeding this girl is the fact that at 6 months old, her body is still growing despite her receptive coloration. Their bodys need time to pour their resources into proper organ and bone development, and breeding at a young age like this is going to stunt her growth, and possibly become life threatening. Im not saying this cant and unfortunately its done to often and this is where we see threads of egg bound females dying half developed eggs. Dont feel rushed to breed her. I have bred a 45g female but the difference was i waited until she was 13 months old to breed her and she showed no signs of growing any more and she is a year and a half old not and she is still the same size. Her two clutches she laid were some of the most perfect eggs i have ever seen. Personally (some may still feel this is to young) I breed my females no younger than 9 months old if they are over 55g BUT again, of course people will disagree. Some wait until a year of age, which i encourage if they are under 55g. The female may even lay an infertile clutch before being bred to lay a fertile one. dc2ap2, Im sorry and i dont want to be rude but I dont know what the heck your talking about, but i think you have to be crazy to think that a fertile clutch takes less of a load on a female than an infertile one. I would much rather wait until she lays the infertile one than breed her just to try to get a viable clutch, as a female is more likely to die egg bound from a fertile clutch than an infertile one. Breeding young can be done and has been done but her lifespan will reflect this practice.

-Nic

 

[sandrachameleon]

How about someone explain to him why this is such an issue instead of just posting mean smileys. Believe it or not some people may honestly be unaware of the repercussions of breeding young and I feel as a fellow keeper, we owe it to him to help educate him rather then basically just calling him an idiot for breeding so young. ....-Nic

Wow - I cant see where anyone used the word "idiot" accept you?
Also, how do you make a mean smiley? I might like to use it!
Perhaps you missed where it was suggested previously to wait until the chameleon finished her own growing?

 

[Nicodemayo]

6 Months?

Why would you attempt to breed such a young animal?

Let me put it this way, many human girls start menstruating and are therefore capable of making babies at 12 years old. Does this seem like a good idea to you?

Just because she could doesnt mean a responsible owner would think she should.

Wait until your female is at least one year old and finished her own growing before you put her in contact with a male.

3rdly Agree lol. It is bad for them to breed them that young. And we frown upon that in this society

Sandra no one called him an idiot literally but you have to be blind to see that these comment arent inferring it. I wanted to include more info for the guy than just telling him to wait until she is done growing because he obviously may not have the experience we do. I know if I were in his shoes and I read your comment i would have wanted a little bit of a better explanation.

 

[Chameleon Company]

They also die young in the wild.

And you know that this happens ? As a result of being cooperatively bred ? Gosh, I always doubted than any breeding-ready virgin female in Madagascar ever was missed by a watchful male ! Thank God some survive the ordeal !

Nico, a lot of what you say makes sense, but the use of the words "breeding young" etc are based on what I call very subjective reasoning. I see no fault in someone wanting to wait beyond a female's first appearance of receptability to breed her. To each keeper their own reasons. But everything about "stunting her growth .... she isn't ready (pysiologically) ... early death ..... etc (excuse me if I took excessive liberties paraphrasing ... didn't mean to) is truly subjective. The reasons for failure of the female in voluntary breeding , in our experience, is not her age. Never has been. Its been poor husbandry leading up to her being able to produce viable eggs and survive. Didn't matter if she was six or twelve months, the lack of her receiving the necessary nutrition etc. killed her during, or soon after, gestation. I know that most indoor-raised chameleons will not be ready to breed at six months. I also will not debate "erring on the side of caution", but I see a lot in this thread that is comparing apples to oranges, aka information that just doesn't hold up to much scrutiny, and conclusions drawn on a very small sampling of experience. Just IMMHO, as usual

 

[laurie]

3rdly Agree lol. It is bad for them to breed them that young. And we frown upon that in this society

Listen to these people they know what they are talking about.

 

[laurie]

How about someone explain to him why this is such an issue instead of just posting mean smileys. Believe it or not some people may honestly be unaware of the repercussions of breeding young and I feel as a fellow keeper, we owe it to him to help educate him rather then basically just calling him an idiot for breeding so young. Hubs, the reason you should you wait on breeding this girl is the fact that at 6 months old, her body is still growing despite her receptive coloration. Their bodys need time to pour their resources into proper organ and bone development, and breeding at a young age like this is going to stunt her growth, and possibly become life threatening. Im not saying this cant and unfortunately its done to often and this is where we see threads of egg bound females dying half developed eggs. Dont feel rushed to breed her. I have bred a 45g female but the difference was i waited until she was 13 months old to breed her and she showed no signs of growing any more and she is a year and a half old not and she is still the same size. Her two clutches she laid were some of the most perfect eggs i have ever seen. Personally (some may still feel this is to young) I breed my females no younger than 9 months old if they are over 55g BUT again, of course people will disagree. Some wait until a year of age, which i encourage if they are under 55g. The female may even lay an infertile clutch before being bred to lay a fertile one. dc2ap2, Im sorry and i dont want to be rude but I dont know what the heck your talking about, but i think you have to be crazy to think that a fertile clutch takes less of a load on a female than an infertile one. I would much rather wait until she lays the infertile one than breed her just to try to get a viable clutch, as a female is more likely to die egg bound from a fertile clutch than an infertile one. Breeding young can be done and has been done but her lifespan will reflect this practice.

-Nic

I have to say Nic raises some awsome chams in excellent conditions. Maybe his being careful with his chams shows. Chameleions are wonderful animals why would anyone want to put one at risk. As owners one of our responsibilites is to provide the best care available. is breeding them young providing that level of care? I think not.

Sandra, Nic, Brad, ect. you guys are what I am working to become. Many thanks for helping me and for trying to help others understand good husbandry.

 

[Nicodemayo]

And you know that this happens ? As a result of being cooperatively bred ? Gosh, I always doubted than any breeding-ready virgin female in Madagascar ever was missed by a watchful male ! Thank God some survive the ordeal !

Nico, a lot of what you say makes sense, but the use of the words "breeding young" etc are based on what I call very subjective reasoning. I see no fault in someone wanting to wait beyond a female's first appearance of receptability to breed her. To each keeper their own reasons. But everything about "stunting her growth .... she isn't ready (pysiologically) ... early death ..... etc (excuse me if I took excessive liberties paraphrasing ... didn't mean to) is truly subjective. The reasons for failure of the female in voluntary breeding , in our experience, is not her age. Never has been. Its been poor husbandry leading up to her being able to produce viable eggs and survive. Didn't matter if she was six or twelve months, the lack of her receiving the necessary nutrition etc. killed her during, or soon after, gestation. I know that most indoor-raised chameleons will not be ready to breed at six months. I also will not debate "erring on the side of caution", but I see a lot in this thread that is comparing apples to oranges, aka information that just doesn't hold up to much scrutiny, and conclusions drawn on a very small sampling of experience. Just IMMHO, as usual

Jim, i dont mean to be subjective. My comment reflects my method of breeding and husbandry. But i have to ask you a question because you have been around chams much longer than I. Do you think a group a females that were bred as soon as they became receptive would live as long as a group of females that were bred much older?

 

[NewOwner]

Sorry to kind of change the subject.. but i think i read somewhere that breeding at a young age is unhealthy and can cause MBD?

I am absolutely 100% NOT sure about this i just thought i read it somewhere...