Trying the Chameleon thing again

daveo

Established Member
I had a chameleon when I was in collage and really did not have much luck. it was a Senegal and he lasted about three months before he stopped eating and wasted away. I had no place to turn for help and the pet shop I bought the animal from was of little help. Now I have the internet at my disposal so I feel I have a better chance at succeeding. So let me tell where I am at in my project and you tell me how I should proceed. I have not gotten the animal yet as I want to get the enclosure up and running before I put an animal in there. I have built a 24x24x36 inch enclosure out of pine 2x2 lumber. I have screened it in with 1/4 inch galvanized PVC coated hardware cloth. I have a 24 inch 2 bulb fluorescent light with a day light bulb and a reptisun 5.0 bulb. I am using a 75 watt incandescent bulb for basking. I have gotten some branches from the birch trees around my house and have sterilized them in the oven. My greatest concern is about "misting". I understand I must spray water on the plants, which I have a mix of artificial and live plants, for drinking, but what about the misting devices I have seen that make fog? Do I need something like that? Also, I am little confused about a drip system. How is the water caught after it drips out of the container? I am looking at getting a Flap Neck Chameleon from a place called Reptile City out of Texas. Has anyone here had any experience with this firm? I have spoken to the owner on the phone and he seems very knowledgeable. I am sorry for the long post, but I really want to do this right.

Thanks

DaveO
 
sounds like your on the right track as for miisting i use a mistking system and i love it and for catching dripper water i usually get it to drip into a live plant and also have a drain hole in the bottom of my setup that goes into a bucket.
 
There is a good chance that the Flapneck Chameleon is a wild caught specimen like your Senegal Chameleon was and as you have found out, are not always the best choice for a beginner chameleon owner. Most wild caught animals are stressed and sickly before they end up in someones house and they just have no chance. I would recommend getting a Veiled or Panther Chameleon as your first pet as they are bred in large numbers annually and are much hardier in captivity. All of the site sponsers here are wonderful chameleon breeders and will provide you with a nice, healthy animal to start you off in the right direction.

If you have your heart set on the Flapneck - they are a neat species that's for sure - verify if he/she is a captive bred specimen.

Good luck!
 
Wow what a fast response! I lurked on a lot of forums before I decided that this one was the one I wanted to join. The flap neck is said to be captive bred. I am not married to that particular chameleon, it was what the gentleman I spoke to recommended as a good and hard species for the beginner. He also recommended the Veiled as well. I was concerned about how big the Veiled get. Also is there any advice about the foggers? Do you guys use them? Also how much water do you drip into your cages per day?

Thanks Again
DaveO
 
Welcome to the forums!!! I have a gallon dripper that I run all day long. My cham spends a great deal of his time outside in a large outdoor cage(I live in Fla) so I don't care where the water goes! When he is inside and I drip, I use a large shallow tupperware container to catch the water and I if that over flows before I get to it I just wipe the bottom out with towels. My daughter or myself is always home, in and out all day so we don't have to worry about leaving in the am and coming home in the pm to a flood! There are many ideas on here for drainage. Just do some searching.
 
The flap neck is said to be captive bred. I am not married to that particular chameleon, it was what the gentleman I spoke to recommended as a good and hard species for the beginner. He also recommended the Veiled as well. I was concerned about how big the Veiled get.
DaveO

A captive bred Flapneck is definitely a good beginner species. They don't get quite as big and have a far better personality and temperament than a Veiled. I kept my dilepis with pretty much the same temperature and feeding requirements as a Veiled only with slightly more humidity. The Flaps aren't as active overall and don't need a huge cage. The Flaps are a very underrated species IMHO.

That said, I took a look at their website and they describe the Flapneck as wild caught. I'm not trying to dissuade you, but Flapnecks are available as CB from time to time so it might be worth the wait for one of those. I've worked with both wild and captive animals and the CB ones are far easier to deal with.
 
I use a mistking mister set on a timer and my panther chameleon gets misted for a little over an hour every day so I dont find it necessary to have a dripper, but I do have a tub under his enclosure for drainage. In regards to cage size, if you decide to go with a panther or veiled it is recomended that you have a 24x24x48 size enclosure
 
A captive bred Flapneck is definitely a good beginner species. They don't get quite as big and have a far better personality and temperament than a Veiled. I kept my dilepis with pretty much the same temperature and feeding requirements as a Veiled only with slightly more humidity. The Flaps aren't as active overall and don't need a huge cage. The Flaps are a very underrated species IMHO.

That said, I took a look at their website and they describe the Flapneck as wild caught. I'm not trying to dissuade you, but Flapnecks are available as CB from time to time so it might be worth the wait for one of those. I've worked with both wild and captive animals and the CB ones are far easier to deal with.

Gotta reiterate Traces' advice on the wc vs cb thing. You can do everything right and have your husbandry down pat and then six months later the wc cham can suddenly crash. Some wc's just wont acclimate to caged life. With that said if your set on the wc flap then go for it. Just be sure to place the cage in a very remote location as far from foot traffic as possible. Imo, I'd start with a panther. They are as hardy as a veiled. They are smaller and they tend to be a little less grumpy and will tolerate handling better in my exp.
 
Yeah, I called the guy in Texas and they are wild caught. He assured me that I would be sucessful as he had them for a few months in quaratine and they are doing well. Now I am gun shy. I like the panthers, but I haven't the funds for one. I could swing a Veiled but I am afraid he will out grow my cage. Also i have small kids so I don't want a mean lizard. Man now I am bummed
 
I dont know this from experience but from what I have gathered from reading this forum the female veileds seem to have a better temperment than the males and dont get as big. They also have more coloring than the female panthers but you should do some more research because keeping a female is different than a male because you have to put something in the bottom of the enclosure to lay eggs in. Im looking into getting a female myself so that is what I have learned thus far
 
try a jacksons chameleon, they need mroe humidity but are mostly calm, small in size and have cool horns,the females dont have horns, and jacksons are the few that give live birth, so females do not lay eggs:D,

(T. xanth) is the common jackson species that is also a beginner species i feel is ok, along with panthers and veileds, though needs a little more water, and ease off the suppelment , they are a calm species for the most part, my first was a female jax, started it all:)
 
Yeah, I called the guy in Texas and they are wild caught. He assured me that I would be sucessful as he had them for a few months in quaratine and they are doing well. Now I am gun shy. I like the panthers, but I haven't the funds for one. I could swing a Veiled but I am afraid he will out grow my cage. Also i have small kids so I don't want a mean lizard. Man now I am bummed

If you have small children in the home I'd advise against getting a wc to start with. I have alot of exp with chams and wc's are very stressed after going thru importation and delivery. It can take months for them to acclimate to a new cage and to seeing people. Having small children with their excitement and their tendency to run around is not the best enviroment for a wc cham. You will actually want that wc to be in a room without much activity and when servicing the cage you will want to move slowly and deliberatly and try not to make sudden jerky movements around the animal. All those things make a wild animal want to fight or flee. Chams dont fight they have no real defense except camoflage so they want to flee. In a caged enviroment they have no place to flee to. Kids tend to bounce around and run and they move faster and with more exagerated movements than adults. Imo not a good combo for that animal.
 
I don't think Jackson's are the best chameleon for a beginner either. To care for them properly and have them thrive in captivity your husbandry needs to be exacting. Veileds and Panthers are a little more forgiving of beginner mistakes.

Kids eh? A chameleon, even a placid Panther Chameleon, is not a reptile pet I would recommend for small children. There are some species of geckos that are very kid friendly, don't get big, don't need large caging and mist systems and won't eat you out of house and home. Have you looked into Crested or Leopard Geckos? They come in a million different colours and patterns these days and are inexpensive to purchase, set up and keep. Both these would be captive bred as well.

Bearded Dragons are another easy going lizard but do need larger caging, fancy lighting and eat and poop a LOT.
 
I commend you on doing your research. I'm sorry things went south on you last time, and wish you better luck this time. I can see that you really do care about the cham you will keep in the futures well being. Go with a cham that sparks your interest the most. They are all beautiful in their own special way. Good luck! :)
 
I don’t think any chameleon would be described as “nice.” My panther isn’t mean at all but he doesn’t like to be bothered, especially by kids. If you’re looking for interaction, a veiled might be the best at tolerating it. I would suggest looking at all the chameleons described as “hardy,” and getting the one you really want. Just read the care sheets and decide what you think you will be able to handle. Every chameleon, regardless of breed, has a unique personality so it’s a little bit of hit and miss anyway. As far as misting goes, I have a bottle with a small hand pump compressor ($7 at Home Depot) and it’s great. I use it 3-4 times a day and rarely have hydration problems. I also have a dripper and a large plastic container coated in screen on my cage bottom to catch the water and keep any clumsy chameleons out. I didn’t have the recourses for a fancy mister and they may be convenient, but not completely necessary. About your cage, just make sure no feeders can squeeze through the ¼ inch gab if it’s kept indoors. Also, I didn’t have a big budget but I found a local dealer who gave me a good deal on a panther so you might want to look into that. It would also assure you of the CB status. But, this is just my lengthy opinion; get as many as you can from the forum members and then make your decision. Hope it helps.
James
 
Thanks for all the advice. I am still undecided as to what to do. Will my cage house a veiled OK? It is really about as big as I have space for. As for the kids. I know that these are more watching type pets as opposed to touching type pets. I have been keeping a reef aquarium for years. Talk about not warm and cuddly. I intend to put the Chameleon in my study. Not really a study, more of a closet with a window. But not many kids go in there. I have 8 so I need a place I can get away from it all.:eek: When I said I don't want a mean lizard, I meant like a crocodile or a Monitor. I kept both when I was in college including a 14 ft reticulated python. I got attacked by the snake once and decided not to get anything that would be a threat to my well being. So all of the dangerous pets went away. Heck I won't even keep a venomous fish or coral. I really like the Flap necked. He reminds me of the Senegal I had. I know Senegals are impossible to keep alive so I am not even going to try. Maybe I'll just get a veiled and call it a day.:confused:

Thanks
Daveo
 
Man I just got done visiting Screameleons. Those are beautiful and the females are the right size. Any issue keeping females as oppsed to males?
 
Females lay eggs and you need to be prepared for that. They will even lay eggs when they're not being bred if not prepared can become eggbound. After my female laid her first clutch she became evil. I don't know what caused the change, but now she hisses at me.
 
Your basic husabandry would be the same as keeping a male with the exception of having a laying bin avail to her after she's reached sexual maturity. At about 5 months old I'd add a laying bin to her cage in case she developed infertile eggs and needed a place to lay. If you research supplementing and feeding schedules. You can avoid large clutches of eggs and you can even possibly keep her from forming infertile eggs by paying close attention to not overfeeding and keeping cage temps a cpl of degrees cooler than for a male of the same species.
 
To answer your questions about misting and drainage:
The MistKing systems are worth every penny.
At the risk of sounding like a commercial, here's my experience:
Having read many reviews about the foggers being NG and finding that the MistKing systems were consistently very highly recommended (add to that the fact that he is a forum sponsor), I was sold.
Not only are the systems very reliable but the timer that comes with them is excellent.
They can even accidentally run dry without burning out the pump.
It isn't just cham keepers who use these systems, frog keepers and botanists use them and they are used in zoos, as well.
You can buy directly from MistKing or from US resellers:
http://www.mistking.com/

My cham enclosures have aluminum screen bottoms and for drainage they sit upon heavy white plastic appliance pans bought from Home Depot or Lowe's.
I attached plastic tubing to allow the water to drain completely out of the pans.

Perhaps I'm mistaken but I suspect that many sizes of crickets and certainly all worms would be able to escape through 1/4" mesh.
I don't think you could go wrong by getting your cham from a forum sponsor.
 
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