Trioceros jacksonii Eye Problem ( with pictures )

JSkelt

Member
Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - Trioceros jacksonii, possibly WC, approx 7-8mo? ( "Mr. Lahey" )
  • Handling – As needed only for medication. Approx 1x per day lately.
  • Feeding - Daily: 3x crickets gut loaded w/ CricketCrack. 2-4x Superworms. Couple Dubias, 1 small Hornworm as treat after handling.
  • Supplements – 2x week: light cricket dusting with Flukers Calcium without D3. 2x month: light dusting Flukers Calcium with D3. 2x month: light dusting with ExoTerra MultiVitamin or Zilla MultiVitamin spray ( alternating ).
  • Watering – 3x Daily with distilled bottled water.
  • Fecal Description – Brown stool with white urea. Usually an orange bit at boundary of urea and stool.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type – 24x24x48 aluminum screen
  • Lighting -2x 24” T5 6% Arcadia bulbs. 1 60W ExoTerra basking bulb. Both on timer 12/hr cycle
  • Temperature – Basking 85-88º, ambient 78º
  • Humidity - 60-80% depending on proximity to misting. Never less than 60% ambient.
  • Plants – Plastic vines and bamboo, both sanitized.
  • Location – Northern New Jersey

Initial Problem:
Woke up one day ( I believe it was Halloween actually ) to see Mr. Lahey had a swollen eye. I had noticed him rubbing it on a stick day before. Initially thought some debris got in there. Day 2, eye was HUGE. And I mean absolutely, ridiculously enormous, see pic dated Nov. 1 - that literally happened overnight ( 12hrs ). Immediately went to our vet that caters to exotics ( very good vet ). Mr. Lahey had stopped eating completely and was sleeping most of day. Weight 24g.

Initial Treatment:
Recommendation was to do a course of antibiotics before trying anything invasive such as lancing to drain. Diagnosis was edema behind the eyeball. Vet administered Baytril subcutaneously ( tiniest little bit, was either 0.5ml, or 0.05ml, I don't recall ). Received 5 total injections 3 days apart for 18 days of total antibiotic treatment. On day 5, the eyelid ruptured at the base where it meets his head and drained.

After 5-7 days Mr. Lahey's eye returned to mostly normal but the saggy, stretch skin never really tightened back up. The ruptured skin scabbed and healed. He began being more active and hunting again. At last vet visit he was 27g and seemed to be on path to full recovery.

Current Problem
Fast forward to earlier this week and Mr. Lahey is doing great, eye still saggy but his vision seems normal. Then he took a fall about 3ft to floor. My wife heard it happen and Mr. Lahey seemed to brush it off climbed right back up top. But since then his eye flared up again.

Last few days, eye remains swollen, see pics dated December 14. Clearly has saggy skin around his eye filled with clear fluid. There is no fluid leaking / crusting over his eye at this time. Its just swollen enough that he has trouble triangulating to hunt on his own. Needs to be hand fed so he has a lot of opportunity to connect with his strikes.

Advice was to flush daily with saline and administer very very very small doses of vitamin a ( from softgel caps ). Have done this for 2 days so far. Small dose = head of a pin's worth smeared on a superworm.

Prior to going back to vet for another $80 visit, I'd like to hear if some experienced members have thoughts on this eye problem. Of course I understand the comments here are no substitute for a vet visit, but I highly value the voice of experts on this forum.

I've read vitamin A deficiencies can lead to eye problems. But that they also take a long time to develop and usually affect both eyes. This is just one eye, the other is perfectly fine.

Could this be a lingering bacterial infection that may potentially require another round of antibiotic treatment? Or does this look indicative of a vitamin deficiency?

Thanks so much for having a look at homeboy and sharing your thoughts!
 

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Please let me know if I didn't provide the right info or came in too hot with my Chams issues, my phrasing or what have you.

My Jacksons is shedding again, and while nowhere as bad as last time, it's exagerated his eye again and I'm still very concerned. It is affecting his ability to hunt and I spend about 15-30min a day coaxing him to eat off tongs. With only one eye, his strikes are way off and it breaks my heart. Once he opens his mouth to strike I just sorta place the feeder in when I can

Maybe the better question to ask is what to expect realistically, from those of this great community who have had similar problems. We're about to do another aggressive antibiotic treatment. But I'm not sure what stress that places on the dude. My vet is great and we walk right in because they don't get a lot of chameleons, they are very knowledgable and work with reptiles often but for me some of the best advice will be from those who've been there with the same or similar species.

Thank you all again for your time, feedback and support.

Cheers!
J
 
I have no further advise other than what you are already on track with. I would agree it's time for another vet visit and more antibiotics. Hydration is really important during antibiotic treatment. If you can get some silkworms or horn worms during this time.
 
Thank you, Lathis!

Will up his hornworm diet a bit, all for that - luckily have them readily available down the street. He loves them, will never turn them down. They are slow so easy for him to strike. Haven't heard much on gut loading hornworms or even if that's a thing but if it is I'll do it.

My wife and I have been talking a lot about prognosis to determine if we should seek out a second medical opinion ( which would require a few hours drive ). The initial antibiotics run was very aggressive according to our vet, and it neutralized that insane problem from my first pic in a few days, but didn't clear it out completely.

Understand Chams like other reptiles respond much slower to such treatments. Guess I'm mostly thinking about if my dude feels pain. Also maybe looking to hear a success story where this sort of problem was reasonably cured.

We'll move forward with the second round of antibiotic treament, and again I thank everyone reading for your time and consideration.
 
I don't have much to offer either. I would try and get him outside in the sun as much as possible if he was mine. I know that isn't an option for people living in much of the country in Winter.
 
i think it's not that unusual for an infection in chams to not get completely kicked the first time around, particularly if the treatment is somewhat of a broadbrush antibiotic. Do you have the type of antibiotic and dose he was given previously? He may need to be kept on it longer or given a more aggressive antibiotic to address the deep infection.

i would agree that a vitamin a deficiency is unlikely the cause of this particular eye problem. if it were both eyes, perhaps.

It's great that he likes hornworms. That will help keep him hydrated. You can feed them special hornworm chow that you can buy or gutload them on almost any veggie like carrots, squash, and peppers. My Jax doesn't care a fig for anything that doesnt crunch, so silkworms and hornworms usually go to waste.
 
Only advice i can offer, is to get rid of those canes in his enclosure. They are slippery & hard for a chameleon to grip & could possibly have been why he fell.
I watched a panther chameleon in a shop a few months back, trying to climb up a vertical one. It was proper stressing him out, not being able to grip it & climb.

Good luck & i hope he recovers for you.
 
I agree with johnnyev about replacing the cane purchases with something thats rougher for your chams to grip. My Jackson's would be sliding all over the place and would probably fall too. My chams Free range and I'm pretty sure that most would disagree with me but I used real dead branches from outside that I scrubbed down with a good antibacterial dish soap.

Regarding the eye. I'm not sure that it would be a vitamin A deficiency with all the supplementing you do. In fact it is very easy to over-supplement a Jackson's cham which can cause edema and other renal problems. I don't supplement mine at all and my male is now 7 1/2 years old. But I also do feed them a very varied diet.

Are you sure your cham has been drinking? Jackson's drink a lot of water.
And your guy looks a little dehydrated to me. Judging from your description of orange in his stool this is probably the case. I'm not saying this will cure his eye infection but Dehydration can lead to weakness and week grip, loss of appetite and renal problems and an increase in other diseases and bacterial infections. Your cham is especially prone to liver and kidney problems because of all the medications he has been on.

I would try getting him to drink as much water as you can from a spray bottle. I have a small green one that is used for misting plants. My jackson's drink right out of the nozzle. I use the stream (not mist..they hate that) setting and squirt little drops their body and at their mouths mimicking rain. Eventually they will drink their fill.

But I still would recommend calling your vet.
 
I agree with johnnyev about replacing the cane purchases with something thats rougher for your chams to grip. My Jackson's would be sliding all over the place and would probably fall too. My chams Free range and I'm pretty sure that most would disagree with me but I used real dead branches from outside that I scrubbed down with a good antibacterial dish soap

Totally agree, i also get all my branches from outside. Especially like to use oak & buddleia, for the rough texture they have. I just give mine a hose down with tap water. But i'm also careful where i collect them from.
 
oww thats was actually scarry, I hade only see my pygmis like that, but I figured out they where cleaning their eyes, because they only did that while I misted, but dude that looked really bad, I think you did good, and by now only the bed can do something, just a thought couldn´t it be some kinda of parasite infections that caused the inflamasion?
 
I'm wondering why he was given Baytril every three days rather than every day. Antibiotics are given daily, but I don't know how chameleons process Baytril. When I treated a chicken (under vet supervision) with Baytril, I gave injections twice a day.
 
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