this is so lame

[reyesjoshuacruz]

Ill keep it short and sweet

Chris: Wow, that may have been one of the most complicated things I've ever tried to read"

what was the point of this comment? was it necessary? or should i say chris: "(although I really don't get what that has to do with anything)" about your comment in turn


Chris: "but if I understand what you said, you seem to be confused about the point of the video............that isn't the issue. The issue in the video was that they are not easy animals to keep in captivity, are not suitable for the majority of individuals who might want to keep them, have care requirements that are complex "

"=mos def when i got my first veild i was wet behind the ears and thought i could not do] it iv had snakes my whole life and herd nothing but bad storys about keeping the (coolest things iv ever seen in my life)"

doesnt look like he missed the point at all, maybe you should re read what he posted.....if you need help figuring out where he was talking about how cham keeping wasnt easy let me know........

try starting with the definition of "wet behind the ears" :The allusion is to the inexperience of a baby, so recently born as to be still wet.

INEXPERIENCE!?!?!?....... do i really have to explain how that relates and is on topic? cause i will, or " bad storys about keeping " as we are on a cham forum i wont explain how easily one can draw the conclusion that he is referring to the horror stories of keepers not meeting the complex req of this animal... again on topic





Chris: "No one really cares if chameleons are cool"

?????????????? of course they do............. if no one thinks they are cool, no one will fight to protect them. humans wont fight to save something they dont like, or think is cute....



Chris: "and that the means by which they are exported and shipped might not be in the best interest of all the individual chameleons involved in the process, not just the ones that make it to keepers in the US or Europe. The majority of what he said is completely true"

when did he state it wasnt true?



chris :" regardless of whether or not chameleons are cool or if they are a grounding influence from your snowboarding/skateboarding hobby (although I really don't get what that has to do with anything). "

you prob didnt skate or snowboard, or you would have made the connection between the time, money, sacrafice..... overall commitment thatsnowboarding/skateboarding hobbies and cham keeping command........ now that its clear his old hobbies required such a commitment you can understand how keeping chams is an equal commitment for him and thus further exposing his grasp on the issue, which is that chameleons arent for everyone ( time, money, sacrafice..... overall commitment )



chris: "You miss the point. To hell with what makes us happy if we prematurely kill all the animals we work with to make us that way. "

it seems like you are under the impression he feels as long as he is happy, that collection/ export nightmare is ok....i dont think i read anywhere that he even commented on the collection/export nightmare ??? where was that?



chris : "The point of the video was that not everyone can provide for chameleons in a way that makes it worth their losses. They are an animal that needs a lot of considerations before someone decides to take them on and that the processes by which they used to arrive to us were not always justifiable to the ends (making us happy). I'm not saying no one should work with them but I think too many people do who shouldn't in the first place."

hopefully now that its clear he was on topic with a clear grasp of concept, this is a moot point, you basically just restating


chris :Like the connotation of the video or not, he was dead on during most of it."


again when did he say he wasnt????? i havent even seen the video yet............. and these points are still apparent

 

[dc2ap2]

let me say that i agree with the export thing i would never buy something that came over on a boat because of the death rate ITS NOT COOL AT ALL!!!!

what i was saying was that keeping some of thes chams isnt as hard as he made it seem i have 3 panthers and 1 veilds and are all in perf shape and helth i do everything for them its all i do in my free time (shit they eat better then i do so do my crickets) this is now just apart of what i do day to day it was real hard at first but now with what iv learnd and still learning its just what i do

all of us here do this couse it makes us happy in some way thats why we all work so hard to keep everything perf for are chams

and cris dont get me wrong realy i dont think this is for most but the ones like us were i feel in away were ment for this

and thanks rey for understanding most of what i said i cant type well and i spell like shit lol

 

[reyesjoshuacruz]

HE POSTED THE VIDEO TO SHARE WITH US IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

im sorry for the responses you've gotten........... i guess its a popularity contest not an open exchange of opinions ...... just wait for the insincere apologies and the " sorry if you understood it that way " replies. wow

 

[dc2ap2]

im lost i posted that vid and i thought u were backing me up?

 

[THECHAMMAN]

it must be that time of the month. everyone seems so grouchy. lol

 

[Brad]

I still don't understand one argument against the video. This thread is a mess. If you have a point you would like to make, please do so carefully so everyone can understand.

 

[THECHAMMAN]

I still don't understand one argument against the video. This thread is a mess. If you have a point you would like to make, please do so carefully so everyone can understand.

me either im just laughing.

 

[Cainschams]

let me say that i agree with the export thing i would never buy something that came over on a boat because of the death rate ITS NOT COOL AT ALL!!!!

what i was saying was that keeping some of thes chams isnt as hard as he made it seem i have 3 panthers and 1 veilds and are all in perf shape and helth i do everything for them its all i do in my free time (shit they eat better then i do so do my crickets) this is now just apart of what i do day to day it was real hard at first but now with what iv learnd and still learning its just what i do

all of us here do this couse it makes us happy in some way thats why we all work so hard to keep everything perf for are chams

and cris dont get me wrong realy i dont think this is for most but the ones like us were i feel in away were ment for this

and thanks rey for understanding most of what i said i cant type well and i spell like shit lol

OK. Let me just start off by saying, Reyes, I see how you see this is a popularity contest. I have never met Chris but I do RESPECT his strive for the education, studying, and experience on chameleons and if he ever gave me an opinion on something I wouldnt think twice about following it. Its kinda like a pro baseball player on a baseball forum. If he says something of course everyone is going to agree wether outlandish or not. Again not saying anyones posts were outlandish. I also dont know how good the analogy is or if you can say Chris is a pro or even anyone at this topic but, he is taking the right steps to be able to observe these creatures, document, and come up with scientific facts to help better understand these creatures. Alright this is just my excuss for saying what I am about to. Sorry if it seems all jumbled like the thread itself.



DC2P2 said. what i was saying was that keeping some of thes chams isnt as hard as he made it seem.

I would like to RESPECTFULLY disagree with this statement. I dont think he made it apparent enough how hard it is or how impossible it is to recreate there natural habitat. Yes some of us do well with species like jacksons, veileds, and panthers but it is still not perfect by any means. They do have life expectancies in the wild and if we reach these we are by far happy and feel successful. What if we could create the perfect habitat with no naturall predators, all the food they possibly need for REAL healthy lives, and just all out no stress factors. Who is to say a panther shouldnt live for 10 or so years. Im sure there are lots of naturall stress factors that reduce there lives in the wild to. I am no scientist and maybe life expectancies are dead on but this is what is going through my head right now. Hmmmm hope Im not as confusing as I think I am right now.

 

[Chris Anderson]

HE POSTED THE VIDEO TO SHARE WITH US IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!...!!!!!

????...?????

Who are you talking about? If you were indicating that I was the one who posted it, since your post immediately followed dc2ap2's post, I'll remind you that dc2ap2 posted it. If you weren't referring to me, you might want to clarify who you're talking about.

im sorry for the responses you've gotten........... i guess its a popularity contest not an open exchange of opinions ...... just wait for the insincere apologies and the " sorry if you understood it that way " replies. wow

I don't see how this hasn't been an open exchange of opinions. I simply think a number of the posters fail to recognize the full scope of some of the issues surrounding the points made in this video and I disagree with their comments about the movie misleading people into believing what was said (read the first and third posts, that was the message being sent by the posters). I'm simply indulging in my right to strongly disagree with the posters and the rational they use to justify their stance.

Chris: Wow, that may have been one of the most complicated things I've ever tried to read"

what was the point of this comment? was it necessary? or should i say chris: "(although I really don't get what that has to do with anything)" about your comment in turn

It was an attempt to encourage clearer communication in the remainder of the thread. If you're going to have a reasonable discussion about differing opinions, clarity is important.

I still don't understand one argument against the video. This thread is a mess. If you have a point you would like to make, please do so carefully so everyone can understand.

Definitely agree with you. It would definitely help keep the discussion going in the right direction.

Chris: "but if I understand what you said, you seem to be confused about the point of the video............that isn't the issue. The issue in the video was that they are not easy animals to keep in captivity, are not suitable for the majority of individuals who might want to keep them, have care requirements that are complex "

"=mos def when i got my first veild i was wet behind the ears and thought i could not do] it iv had snakes my whole life and herd nothing but bad storys about keeping the (coolest things iv ever seen in my life)"

doesnt look like he missed the point at all, maybe you should re read what he posted.....if you need help figuring out where he was talking about how cham keeping wasnt easy let me know........

try starting with the definition of "wet behind the ears" :The allusion is to the inexperience of a baby, so recently born as to be still wet.

INEXPERIENCE!?!?!?....... do i really have to explain how that relates and is on topic? cause i will, or " bad storys about keeping " as we are on a cham forum i wont explain how easily one can draw the conclusion that he is referring to the horror stories of keepers not meeting the complex req of this animal... again on topic

Wait, wait, we should probably define allusion too just to make sure I know what we're talking about...

The video was described as: "a vid on you tube that makes it seem un real to have and love what we all do".

In explaining the poster's own opinion on the content of the video, he stated: "its a shame some pepole just dont know what they are talking about as far as care but it cool as far as shiping and inporting". We can argue all day long about what he actually meant from this (I reiterate that clarity is important) but I interpret it as "the info on shipping and importing is interesting but he doesn't know what he's talking about as far as care goes."

The poster went on to state: "it is a lot of work but for what we all get back its worth every sec spent ...pepole just dont give the time to see how cool it realy is". Now, I would argue that plenty of people recognize chameleons as cool but that does not account for the shipping/importation process, the complexity of some of their husbandry requirements or the fact that they are not suited for everyone to keep. I agree that increasing people's awareness would help to enlighten people on these issues but I would say that this video is an attempt at just that, not the misleading crap that another poster says it is.

Chris: "No one really cares if chameleons are cool"

?????????????? of course they do............. if no one thinks they are cool, no one will fight to protect them. humans wont fight to save something they dont like, or think is cute....

Quite true but the point of the video was to educate those that just think they are cool to understand the bigger issue with keeping them in captivity. The point of the video was not that chameleons are cool. If people just think they are cool and don't understand their sensitivity and the issues outlined in this video, people aren't going to do the animals justice either.

Chris: "and that the means by which they are exported and shipped might not be in the best interest of all the individual chameleons involved in the process, not just the ones that make it to keepers in the US or Europe. The majority of what he said is completely true"

when did he state it wasnt true?

The subject of the thread: "this is so lame"
The description of the video's content: "this is a link to a vid on you tube that makes it seem un real to have and love what we all do its a shame some pepole just dont know what they are talking about as far as care"

chris :" regardless of whether or not chameleons are cool or if they are a grounding influence from your snowboarding/skateboarding hobby (although I really don't get what that has to do with anything). "

you prob didnt skate or snowboard, or you would have made the connection between the time, money, sacrafice..... overall commitment thatsnowboarding/skateboarding hobbies and cham keeping command........ now that its clear his old hobbies required such a commitment you can understand how keeping chams is an equal commitment for him and thus further exposing his grasp on the issue, which is that chameleons arent for everyone ( time, money, sacrafice..... overall commitment )

Yet a video outlining this fact for the general public "is so lame"? Clearly his grasp of the video does not match your interpretation in my opinion.

chris: "You miss the point. To hell with what makes us happy if we prematurely kill all the animals we work with to make us that way. "

it seems like you are under the impression he feels as long as he is happy, that collection/ export nightmare is ok....i dont think i read anywhere that he even commented on the collection/export nightmare ??? where was that?

My comment was a general one about people keeping chameleons without dedication to fulfill their husbandry requirements or realizing that they aren't for everyone, not necessarily the poster. This was a generalization about the mentality that they are just expendable.

chris : "The point of the video was that not everyone can provide for chameleons in a way that makes it worth their losses. They are an animal that needs a lot of considerations before someone decides to take them on and that the processes by which they used to arrive to us were not always justifiable to the ends (making us happy). I'm not saying no one should work with them but I think too many people do who shouldn't in the first place."

hopefully now that its clear he was on topic with a clear grasp of concept, this is a moot point, you basically just restating

Just restating, obviously a moot point to anyone that has followed the thread, that I don't agree. See above.

chris :Like the connotation of the video or not, he was dead on during most of it."


again when did he say he wasnt?????

Again, see above.

i havent even seen the video yet............. and these points are still apparent

Ahh, so you haven't even made an attempt to get up to speed on the thread completely before jumping in with your thoughts. Thanks for the contribution.

what i was saying was that keeping some of thes chams isnt as hard as he made it seem i have 3 panthers and 1 veilds and are all in perf shape and helth i do everything for them its all i do in my free time (shit they eat better then i do so do my crickets) this is now just apart of what i do day to day it was real hard at first but now with what iv learnd and still learning its just what i do

Unfortunately veileds and panthers really aren't very difficult to keep or breed as chameleons in general go (most are much more complicated) but the death rates in the hands of many keepers of these species is still astounding. As I said before, I'm not saying some people don't do well with them, I'm saying that many people don't and many people really shouldn't be working with them whether its because they aren't putting in the effort or don't understand their complexities or whatever. I think the impression from the video on their difficulty was very fair to someone considering working with these animals. They need to understand what they are getting into and this video expresses it generally well in my opinion.

Chris