The dreaded eye issue continues! PLEASE HELP!

JaclynCali

Member
Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Panther, male, 8 months old, and he's been in my care since he was 3 months.
Handling - Usually every other day to take him outside to sunbathe.
Feeding - He eats crickets, hornworms, silkies, dubias, and gets giant meal worms twice a wk as a treat. He usually eats 5-6 med crickets along with 2-3 hornworms a day. He hasn't wanted dubias for a wk or so but I usually switch off from crickets to dubias. He eats every morning about an hr after he's been awake and misted. I gut-load with bug burger, fruits, and veggies (papaya, apples, carrots, spinach, collard greens, dandelion greens, and kale.
Supplements - I dust with Repashy's cal/ vit plus supplement every feeding.
Watering - I have a dripper going 12 hrs a day. He gets misted all throughout the day (usually every other hr for 2 mins straight). I see him drink every day off the leaf his dripper drips on.
Fecal Description - His stool looks normal and his urates are white but do have a tiny bit of yellow in it. He hasn't been tested for parasites.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Screen cage, 24x24x48
Lighting - 50w exto terra daylight basking bulb and I recently just switched the UVB bulb from zoomed's 5.0 to the Arcadia T5. Lights on from 7am-6pm.
Temperature - His basking spot stays between 85-88 degrees. The ambient temp stays around 75 and drops to 70 at night. I have 2 digital thermometers in his cage, one sits to the right of his basking and the other is at the bottom of his cage.
Humidity - Usually stays around 75 and drops down to 50 all throughout the day.
Plants - There is a Pothos, Croton, Umbrella, and Ficus in his cage.
Placement - My chams have their own room, away from the vent/high traffic, and the cage is about 3ft off the floor.
Location - Arizona (an hr out of Vegas)

Current Problem - So I posted about Remi's eye problem over a month ago (https://www.chameleonforums.com/eye-problem-please-help-117461/) and he is still not showing any signs of improvement. He's still rubbing his eye on the branches in his cage and today while I was holding him, he started rubbing both eyes against my hand. The vet I took him to here in town didn't know very much about chameleons and put him on baytril for 10 days and that did nothing. I've been continuing to give him 2 small doses of liquid vit A twice a week but his eye continues to bother him and still has a slight droop to it. I took him to a herp vet in Vegas a week and half ago and she said it could be anything from vit a, to his uvb light bothering him, or maybe he has something in it. She put dye in his eye to see if maybe he had an ulcer but nothing showed up so she sent me home with terramycin and told me to try that for a week and see if it helps. Other than that she said my husbandry was great and that Remi looked beautiful and very healthy..

It's been over a week now and still nothing changed except for now he is trying to go to sleep around 3 instead of 6, when his lights go off. He's also not basking as much as he usually does but his appetite is still great. Today I had to wake him up and put him under his light because he was black and sleeping at 1:30pm:confused: I feel SO helpless and frustrated. I hope I can figure this out soon! :(
 

Chameleon Company

Avid Member
Couple of questions. What is the Arcadia UVB ? Is it a florescent tube ?

What are the specs on the liquid vitamin A you are using ? What is the source of vitamin A, the concentration, and how much are you dosing ?

Thanks.
 

JaclynCali

Member
Hi, I can tell you from the picture on the other thread. Your guy has something in his turret. You will need to take him to a qualified vet to remove the debris. Doesnt look like an infection but who knows what has developed in the time from then to now.

In the time being to help him. Give him loooonnngggg warm showers. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/ataraxia/594-shower-chamber-treatment.html

How do they remove debris from their eyes? I'm guessing he'll have to go under?
 

JaclynCali

Member
There's a dark spot on the bottom left of his turret. Is that what your seeing wrong with his eye? I've noticed it for a while but neither vet said anything about it. The vet told me there's an eye specialist in Vegas who sees chameleons. I guess my next stop is there.
 

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ataraxia

Avid Member
In the first thread you can see little lump/s in the pictures. These could be pieces of shed or something he has rubbed in his eye. Im going out on a limb here but they may be some sort of growths too.

At the vets, If he had his eye drawn in. It would be very hard for a vet to notice the abnormal shape of the turret.

I could be completely wrong here but it is my best guess from looking at the pictures.
 

Decadancin

Moderatoris Americanus
Staff member
If you are worried about the UV being too strong, you could add a piece of screen between the bulb and the top of the enclosure. Sometimes when a bulb is new it will be a bit too strong for certain applications, and after a couple months you can remove the screen.
As for the eye, I cant get the picture large enough to get that good a look, but I can't see anything too unusual. I'm no vet, but could it be some form of conjunctivitis? (I would think the terramycin would help that, but again, I'm no vet.)
I truly hope Remi feels better soon!
 

JaclynCali

Member
If you are worried about the UV being too strong, you could add a piece of screen between the bulb and the top of the enclosure. Sometimes when a bulb is new it will be a bit too strong for certain applications, and after a couple months you can remove the screen.
As for the eye, I cant get the picture large enough to get that good a look, but I can't see anything too unusual. I'm no vet, but could it be some form of conjunctivitis? (I would think the terramycin would help that, but again, I'm no vet.)
I truly hope Remi feels better soon!

I really don't think it could be the light but then again I have no clue. I have so many places for him to get away from it and there's tons of shade. I also elevated it more so it's not as close as it was. There's an eye doctor in Vegas who has done tons of research on chameleons and their eyes and I have an appt. with him on Friday. He says he can look in his eye without sedating him. If they do find something in his eye he's going back to my herp vet's office to have it taken out and he'll be sedated of course :( Ugh, talk about anxiety and worrying to the fullest. Thank you for the kind words and the info.
 

JaclynCali

Member
In the first thread you can see little lump/s in the pictures. These could be pieces of shed or something he has rubbed in his eye. Im going out on a limb here but they may be some sort of growths too.

At the vets, If he had his eye drawn in. It would be very hard for a vet to notice the abnormal shape of the turret.

I could be completely wrong here but it is my best guess from looking at the pictures.

I took some better pics today with my camera..


 

Chameleon Company

Avid Member
How do they remove debris from their eyes? I'm guessing he'll have to go under?

No., they do not need to go under. Not at all.

A vet will insert a very small tube into the turret, and then flush it out. But you can accomplish similar for about $6.

Any drug store/supermarket medical area, will sell a rack of eye-care products. You want to buy an eye-wash, for washing human eyes. Usually a 4 oz bottle in a box, House brands and such as Bosch and Lomb run $5-6.

Its a squirt bottle. Holding your chameleon securely, at a downward 45 degrees, you want to hold the bottle about an inch from the turret, and squeeze a jet of fluid directly into the eye. This will cause the turret to balloon-up a bit with the wash fluid. As soon as it does, stop and let it drain. Then repeat 2 times. Holding the animal downward prevents the wash from running down its' throat.

This is a very safe, effective, and inexpensive treatment.

I also don't think your problem is anything stuck in the eye. 99% of the time, it is not. More than half the time, its a vitamin A deficiency. Catch it in time, and its an easy fix. Beyond a certain point, and its quite a mess.
 

JaclynCali

Member
No., they do not need to go under. Not at all.

A vet will insert a very small tube into the turret, and then flush it out. But you can accomplish similar for about $6.

Any drug store/supermarket medical area, will sell a rack of eye-care products. You want to buy an eye-wash, for washing human eyes. Usually a 4 oz bottle in a box, House brands and such as Bosch and Lomb run $5-6.

Its a squirt bottle. Holding your chameleon securely, at a downward 45 degrees, you want to hold the bottle about an inch from the turret, and squeeze a jet of fluid directly into the eye. This will cause the turret to balloon-up a bit with the wash fluid. As soon as it does, stop and let it drain. Then repeat 2 times. Holding the animal downward prevents the wash from running down its' throat.

This is a very safe, effective, and inexpensive treatment.

I also don't think your problem is anything stuck in the eye. 99% of the time, it is not. More than half the time, its a vitamin A deficiency. Catch it in time, and its an easy fix. Beyond a certain point, and its quite a mess.

Do you think I should get him a vit A injection? He will not eat anything that has the liquid vit A that I've been using by Flukers. As soon as he taste it he spits the bug out of his mouth. So you don't think I should take him to the eye doc? I am so clueless.
 

Chameleon Company

Avid Member
Do you think I should get him a vit A injection? He will not eat anything that has the liquid vit A that I've been using by Flukers. As soon as he taste it he spits the bug out of his mouth. So you don't think I should take him to the eye doc? I am so clueless.

No. No injection needed. But Flukers does not make a "vitamin A" to my knowledge. Do you mean their liquid reptile vitamin ? That has real Vitamin A in it, but if your animal is suffering from a deficiency, you need to dose Vitamin A directly for about 5 days, and not just a vitamin mix that has A in it.

I asked you a few posts back to be specific about the Vitamin A. You did not give me the info that I requested. I was serious.

Jim
 

fluxlizard

Avid Member
Taking him to the eye vet is a good idea.

That said I agree with this-

I also don't think your problem is anything stuck in the eye. 99% of the time, it is not. More than half the time, its a vitamin A deficiency. Catch it in time, and its an easy fix. Beyond a certain point, and its quite a mess.
Reply With Quote

Maybe it is an infection, but I definately agree- IMO a little vit a on a regular basis works with the lizard's body by giving it what it needs to prevent and cure many such infections.

You can give vit a orally without a food bug. Just tap or even stroke your chameleon gently on the nose while restraining the head gently, and his mouth will open and he will gape at you. Poke a pinhole in a human vit a capsule available at any walmart or pharmacy and drop a single drop from the capsule into his gaping mouth, let go and he will relax and swallow the drop of liquid.

When I first joined the forums a few years back, I read stuff on here that encouraged use of no vit a, and only beta carotene. Although this was contrary to my own experience in the 90s* I decided to give it another try with some panthers and see what would happen to check and see if I had been mistaken about my conclusions reached in the 90s. Within 6 months I had eye problems very similar to yours that did not respond to antibiotic. After treating the way I described to you in the paragraph above the problem cleared up in about a week of a single drop of vit a every day or two (have to admit I missed a couple of days or I would have done daily) and after clearing up it never returned with the panthers- I swtiched back once again to regular use of reptivite as part of my supplementation and never had eye problems again.

I see eye problems again and again on the forums and my guess is that use of reptivite every couple weeks would prevent most of the problems.

*(My experience- Had hundreds of eggs from a number of panthers that did not hatch after I stopped using vit a and only used herptivite after it came out in the 1990s, so I suspected the herptivite and went back to using reptivite regularly and did not have the event recur). I do not doubt that there are forum members who can get away with very little or no vit a. Hats off to them and their excellent gutloading. But for me- I can't do it and it isn't worth the risk when occasional and regular use can easily prevent the problem.
 
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Chameleon Company

Avid Member
Taking him to the eye vet is a good idea.

That said I agree with this-



Maybe it is an infection, but I definately agree- IMO a little vit a on a regular basis works with the lizard's body by giving it what it needs to prevent and cure many such infections.

You can give vit a orally without a food bug. Just tap or even stroke your chameleon gently on the nose while restraining the head gently, and his mouth will open and he will gape at you. Poke a pinhole in a human vit a capsule available at any walmart or pharmacy and drop a single drop from the capsule into his gaping mouth, let go and he will relax and swallow the drop of liquid.

When I first joined the forums a few years back, I read stuff on here that encouraged use of no vit a, and only beta carotene. Although this was contrary to my own experience in the 90s* I decided to give it another try with some panthers and see what would happen to check and see if I had been mistaken about my conclusions reached in the 90s. Within 6 months I had eye problems very similar to yours that did not respond to antibiotic. After treating the way I described to you in the paragraph above the problem cleared up in about a week of a single drop of vit a every day or two (have to admit I missed a couple of days or I would have done daily) and after clearing up it never returned with the panthers- I swtiched back once again to regular use of reptivite as part of my supplementation and never had eye problems again.

I see eye problems again and again on the forums and my guess is that use of reptivite every couple weeks would prevent most of the problems.

*(My experience- Had hundreds of eggs from a number of panthers that did not hatch after I stopped using vit a and only used herptivite after it came out in the 1990s, so I suspected the herptivite and went back to using reptivite regularly and did not have the event recur). I do not doubt that there are forum members who can get away with very little or no vit a. Hats off to them and their excellent gutloading. But for me- I can't do it and it isn't worth the risk when occasional and regular use can easily prevent the problem.

Good post.
 

JaclynCali

Member
No. No injection needed. But Flukers does not make a "vitamin A" to my knowledge. Do you mean their liquid reptile vitamin ? That has real Vitamin A in it, but if your animal is suffering from a deficiency, you need to dose Vitamin A directly for about 5 days, and not just a vitamin mix that has A in it.

I asked you a few posts back to be specific about the Vitamin A. You did not give me the info that I requested. I was serious.

Jim

I apologize I thought I responded back to you but it must not have posted. You're right, I thought it was liquid vit A but it's liquid vitamin like you said. I have cod oil, can I use that or just buy pure vit A at store?
 

JaclynCali

Member
Taking him to the eye vet is a good idea.

That said I agree with this-



Maybe it is an infection, but I definately agree- IMO a little vit a on a regular basis works with the lizard's body by giving it what it needs to prevent and cure many such infections.

You can give vit a orally without a food bug. Just tap or even stroke your chameleon gently on the nose while restraining the head gently, and his mouth will open and he will gape at you. Poke a pinhole in a human vit a capsule available at any walmart or pharmacy and drop a single drop from the capsule into his gaping mouth, let go and he will relax and swallow the drop of liquid.

When I first joined the forums a few years back, I read stuff on here that encouraged use of no vit a, and only beta carotene. Although this was contrary to my own experience in the 90s* I decided to give it another try with some panthers and see what would happen to check and see if I had been mistaken about my conclusions reached in the 90s. Within 6 months I had eye problems very similar to yours that did not respond to antibiotic. After treating the way I described to you in the paragraph above the problem cleared up in about a week of a single drop of vit a every day or two (have to admit I missed a couple of days or I would have done daily) and after clearing up it never returned with the panthers- I swtiched back once again to regular use of reptivite as part of my supplementation and never had eye problems again.

I see eye problems again and again on the forums and my guess is that use of reptivite every couple weeks would prevent most of the problems.

*(My experience- Had hundreds of eggs from a number of panthers that did not hatch after I stopped using vit a and only used herptivite after it came out in the 1990s, so I suspected the herptivite and went back to using reptivite regularly and did not have the event recur). I do not doubt that there are forum members who can get away with very little or no vit a. Hats off to them and their excellent gutloading. But for me- I can't do it and it isn't worth the risk when occasional and regular use can easily prevent the problem.

Thank you for all the great info! I really appreciate it. I will start him on vit a tomorrow and see how it goes. I'm hoping I can cancel his appt in Vegas if this is the answer to the problem. I actually have reptivite so ill start using it twice a month. The breeders I got him from recommended using Repashy calcium plus as the main supplement. Should I continue using it with every feeding?
 

ataraxia

Avid Member
I would agree with Vit A being the issue if a multivitamin with preformed Vit A wasnt being used.

Something is in the turret ;)

Edit: The last set of pictures look towards the bottom. A lump is visible.
 
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JaclynCali

Member
I would agree with Vit A being the issue if a multivitamin with preformed Vit A wasnt being used.

Something is in the turret ;)

So you think I should take him to the eye doctor? You're not mistaking the water drops on his eye as the issue right? You actually see something inside the turret?
 

ataraxia

Avid Member
I could be completely wrong as the chameleon company and fluxlizard both have 20 times my experience with chameleons. If this Vet/doctor is familiar with chameleons. Id definitely suggest taking him to that vet/doctor. We are all truly guessing here without honestly having a professional with instruments to take a look at him.

1. Ive never personally noticed this in any of my chameleons to know if it is normal or not. Judging on how it looks. It doesnt appear to be normal.
2. Lump. There is another lump directly across from #1 also.

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I just had something removed from my panther's eye. He had a lump and the vet flushed it out and put him on cipro drops. It was some mucous that hardened up. Pix below 1382423_565149316873942_261320339_n.jpg

1384006_565261366862737_1347550891_n.jpg
 
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