Tell me what to expect

mmdragondreamer · Oct 6, 2008

Hi,
I have been researching Panther Chameleons with the thought of getting
one. Are they fairly hardy creatures. I am not an advanced herp. enthusiast. But I am a responsible, conscientious adult who takes care of her pets. The only other reptiles I have are Leopard Geckos.
It looks to set up the cage with, automatic misting system, plants, etc.,I am looking at $450.00-500.00 including the cage.
I have been looking at several breeder web-sites. To get a nice colored male it looks like the range is $350.00-$550.00. Am I on target? Are there breeders you recommend and recommend I stay away from?(I live in the Atlanta area and there is a reptile expo in a few weeks. I think Fl.Chams. will be there.)
You guys have Panther Chameleons what are your thoughts?
Thanks for any input

jannb · Oct 6, 2008

Welcome to the forums. You have come to the right place to learn about chameleons. You will find that keeping a chameleon is much different than a Gecko. I would suggest you spend as much time possible here doing your reshearch to prepare for your new chameleon. You will need to have your cage set up and tested before you get your chameleon. You will want to make sure that everything's working properly before you bring your little guy home. Below is a great web site that will tell you allot of what you'll need to know. It says it's for veiled chameleons but most things are the same. There's a search tab at the top that's helpful and you can always ask questions and there are members here to help. And yes your prices are about right and FL Chams is an excellent place to buy from. Cages and supplies are reasonable at LLLreptile.com

http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/

royden · Oct 6, 2008

Welcome to the boards! This is the place to research and discuss this hobby.

You have a refreshingly clear estimate of what you're getting into. I'd say you'll spend $500 pretty quickly as you figure out what works and what doesn't for your setup. Try to plan your drainage, it's the one thing everyone does differently, but everyone needs to do. Especially with misting systems.

A misting system is a great idea for freeing up your schedule and your hands.

FlChams is great! I bought my first chameleon from Mike Monge. He's also a site sponsor.

I wouldn't really call chameleons 'hardy'. They can thrive if you get everything right and do your homework. But when they get sick, they get really sick and go down hill fast.

Good luck and use the search option on the forum to help you research.

Lizardlover · Oct 6, 2008

welcome! panthers are very rewarding if you have the right stuff, there are many private and commercial breeders to buy them from, i bought my guy from pichispythons who is a member here, good luck!

mmdragondreamer · Oct 6, 2008

Can you say a little bit more about "drainage systems". All I have found is "most keepers utilizing a misting system devise their own drainage system". Also can you talk a little about size of the cage for a juvenile and at what time do you move him to a bigger cage. I bought and read 3 books on Panther Chameleons; each one has a different view about the cage and needs.
I learned the hard way about vets for reptiles. I took my ill gecko to a vet who was recommended as an "exotics vet." 3 months and $700.00 later my little gecko still died. When I talked to the herp breeder I buy geckos from about my vet experience, he just shook his head and said my "exotic vet" had been responsible for a lot of reptiles in the area not receiving proper treatment. I now have the name of a vet who specializes in reptiles.

jannb · Oct 6, 2008

Make sure the vet knows cameleons. I know there are other members here from the Atlanta area. To start with you will need a small cage about 2x2x1....then keep that for your travel cage (vet visits and all) then about 6 to 8 months move to a larger cage. My adult's in a 2x3x4. My husband makes our cages so LLLReptiles may not match us exactly. In the small cage at first we just had holes in the bottom that drained to a pan below the cage. In the big cage we have a drain that looks like the one in your sink and we still have a pan (tub) to catch the water. There's many different types of drains......maybe some of the guys will help out here. Below is a site to look for vets. Also you might want to check the classified section at the top and see if members here have any panthers for sale. Jann
http://www.herpvetconnection.com/

sandrachameleon · Oct 6, 2008

hello and welcome
You've come to the right place to ask questions and do research.

There are many opinions on cages, in terms of construction and size. A young chameleon (approx up to six months) will be find in a relatively small cage (1'x1'x2') but an adult will need at least 2'wx1.5'dx4'heigh. Bigger IS generally better. what your cage is best constructed of may depend on where you live. Lots of folks in warm states use screen cages. I use a primarily wooden cage. The enclosure must be a large enough space so the animal may conduct all of its natural behaviors including, basking, hunting, nesting (females), drinking and feeding. IMHO I would suggest 2x2x4 or larger for an adult. But the key is to keep the environmental conditions inside the cage right.

to that end, your chameleon enclosure ought to accomplish the following objectives:
Space. Although chameleons are often slow-moving animals, they require a lot of space for their physical and emotional comfort, security and thermal regulation. Like I said, I think an adult should have a cage no smaller than 2 wide, 2 deep, and 4 high.
Height. In the wild, chameleons are arboreal, dwelling in the foliage of small trees. They naturally prefer to be above predators, (which includes you). The cage should allow the chameleon to perch above your eye level. Chameleons are arboreal creatures in nature and some species normally perch at heights of six feet or more. This gives chameleons a sense of security that should be factored into their captive environment. Cages that are less than six feet high should be placed on stands.
Ventilation. It should provide good ventilation on all sides and top of the enclosure, because Poor ventilation, such as in a glass aquarium or other solid-walled enclosure, traps stagnant air which can lead to illness. Large bird cages with coated wire are a good option, if you can find them both big enough in size but with bars close enough together to keep your chameleon enclosed. Mesh cages are a good option, but be careful to ensure your chameleons toes will never get caught in the mesh. Be cautious of using uncoated hardware cloth (chicken wire) as it can cut feet. I use a combination of wood peg board, screen and acrylic.
Predator-proof. Chameleons must be (and feel) safe from attacks by birds, cats, dogs, rats, snakes, racoons, curious children, etc.
Safely supports a lighting system, including at least one incandescent basking lamp for heat and one fluorescent lamp that emits UV-B, or a mercury vapour lamp that emits UVB, UVA and infrared heat, all in such a way that thermal burns are avoided.
Water. Facilitates easy removal of excess drinking water on a daily basis. Cages with screened floors work best for this purpose, or a sloped waterproof floor (plastic tray for example) that leads water to a drainage hole and collection bucket. As a volume of rapidly dripping water and misted water passes through the chameleons cage, the chameleon will lap water from the plants and branches, but the excess (which far exceeds the amount consumed) should drain into a catch basin (preferably under the cage). Enclosures with solid floors require an extra expenditure of effort to remove the excess water that accumulates on a daily basis.
Egg laying box. Has sufficient space to include a 2 x 2 x 2 nesting box for females, unless you plan to move her when she is ready to lay eggs.
Bonus: Allows exposure to direct sunlight. Whenever the temperatures outdoors are within the preferred range of your species, the enclosure should be transferred outside or you should have a separate outdoors cage so your chameleon can bask in the sun, which is the best source of UVB irradiation. However, you have to balance the benefits of natural sunlight with the stress of being moved and you need to ensure there is sufficient cool shade as well.

sandrachameleon · Oct 6, 2008

mmdragondreamer · Oct 7, 2008

Wow sandrachameleon! Thank you so much for taking the time to give me such detailed,good information. (Some of which I never saw in any of the books.)
Any other advice would be appreciated.

royden · Oct 7, 2008

Hey Dragondreamer,

If you have a misting system going off 3 or 4 or 5 times a day to get your humidity levels to spike, you're going to have a water problem at the bottom of the cage. You need to figure out how to drain it.

Everyone has a different system. Some people have the time to directly hand spray the plant and inner cage and then wipe down the access water. That might work for you.

I won't go into all the different methods. I'll tell you what I do. I bought a 30" square rabbit cage tray that is about 2 inches deep. I set my 24"x24"x36" cage inside the tray and remove the cage's pvc bottom. Because my cage is recessed into my closet I worry about access moisture, or overspray. So I have clear sheets of plastic bought from tap plastics and screwed to the back two walls of the screen cage. They drape down inside the tray so water will trickle down and be caught. The cage and tray are set on a corrogated plastic shelf. The tray has a hole drilled right next to the plant pot (lowest point in the tray) so the water drains out, drips through the corrogated shelf into a rubbermaid that sits underneath the whole thing. I empty that monthly.

That's it. I should take pictures sometimes I suppose. Other people have other methods, they might want to chime in.

Good luck.

mmdragondreamer · Oct 7, 2008

Thanks Royden for your explanation.
You sound like a Tech Graduate.I was a Liberal Arts major You know one of those"Do you want fries with that?" worthless degrees.
I do think I understand the cage sitting in a rabbit cage. If I am understanding it, the water drains to a bottom compartmentwith a container that catches the water from the spray.Are there pictures that would help me see it.
Sorry, I am so dense. I think I need the book, "Panther Chameleons for Morons"

Ryan Jarosek · Oct 7, 2008

Here are some pics of my setup

See the pan under the rack that catches the water. I use a rack from home depot that is slotted and set the cage on the rack. I drill holes in the bottom to allow water to drain. The holes are small enough not to allow feeders out.

I should make a note that the humidifier is for my carpet Chameleons. Depending on your humidity levels it may or may not be needed. Carpet Chams require more humidity.

mmdragondreamer · Oct 7, 2008

Thanks Ryan! That helps a lot.

royden · Oct 7, 2008

mmdragondreamer said:
Thanks Royden for your explanation.
You sound like a Tech Graduate "

Ha! Hardly. I push pencils and pixels for a living. (Artist)

Ryan - awesome setup! Those were the shelves I was talking about dragondreamer. I have the same ones.

Tell me what to expect

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