Superworms: consensus?

[summoner12]

Sorry but chameleons with adiposias don't have a high life average
It sounds hard but I don't understand why you feed 6-7 crickets per day ! That's enough for a week. You know that your chameleons are fat but you don't do anything against it. That's irresponsible

in 18 months ill let ya know how hes doing

 

[chamelisa]

It's not likely they would find many crickets either. Crickets are nocturnal...

That one always has me scratching my head. We feed all of these nocturnal feeders and what they really should be getting are feeders found in the day.

 

[eisentrauti]

Like flys and grashoppers. But superworms are better ! They are cheaper and easier to handle !

 

[Brad Ramsey]

We can't get grasshoppers (locusts) here unless we go out and collect them.
Then you run the risk of exposing your chameleon to pesticides.
USDA regulations forbid the transport and/or selling of them.
It has nothing to do with the price of superworms, they are the same price or more than crickets.

-Brad

 

[summoner12]

What kind of bugs would we find during the day?

I don't see what the big deal is with supers if your gut loading them right.

 

[Powers]

I don't understand all this talk about what bugs are "most natural" to chameleons? Any chameleon held in captivity has a whole lot more "un-natural things" going on in its life than that.

 

[summoner12]

Sorry but chameleons with adiposias don't have a high life average
It sounds hard but I don't understand why you feed 6-7 crickets per day ! That's enough for a week. You know that your chameleons are fat but you don't do anything against it. That's irresponsible

Who are you addressing here? I never said I feed my Chams 6-7 crickets a day.

I did say that I have a wide food selection and that I feed him one super a day. That is a bit of an over staetment. I don't feed fred each day I go a day or two between feedings. Sometimes he gets fed two or three times a week. He gets food once or twice on the weekends and once or twice during the week. If he is fed more than three times in one week it is only one food item per feeding.

Fred is 220 grams and is 8.5" stv. Overweight?

 

[albacheck]

I thought I made another message, which seems to have mysteriously disppeared.

Albacheck,

What are the basic differences between German and American husbandry, feeders, and breeding/incubation? I would love for you to post the basic differences, you write so well, and we can't get better without being exposed to new ways of doing things.

Thanks
Nick

I'd be glad to do it, if you are interested. At the moment though, I'm a bit short of time and I've got exams next week, so you might have to wait a bit.

All I know is people don't put half of the thought into what they eat as they do their chameleons. I'm sure no one on this board knows what the protein/calcium/phosphorus/fat %'s of their dinner was last night.

Your humanizing them again. After three bowls of ice-cream, I know that I should stop eating, if I don’t want to gain too much weight and consider rather eating a salad the next time. A chameleon unfortunatly isn’t that concerned about it’s diet.

I don't understand all this talk about what bugs are "most natural" to chameleons? Any chameleon held in captivity has a whole lot more "un-natural things" going on in its life than that.

Jep, and it is our duty to recreate their natural environment, as far as our capacities go.

If I was living out in the wild I'm sure I wouldn't be able to find a box of Cheez-Its, but I'm sure I could live off them just fine.

Dammit, now I want some Cheez-Its.

Not in the long run.

Not all worms are high in fat content, some have very good nutritional value.
Here is a quote from one of the site sponsors webpage in regards to hornworms


" They are extremely healthy. They are high in calcium, low in fat, have no chitin or exoskeleton so your animal will not have trouble digesting them. All this provides more usable nutrition for your animals.

Calcium - 46.4mg/100g
Fat - 3.07% "

I think it's a much safer choice to offer variety to these animals we keep in captivity in attempts to provide the best quality of life. Of course, there are just some feeders we won't get which are found in the wild. So we must get as close to the nutritional side of what those feeders would have provided.
This just my opinion and how I choose to feed... Variety!

Do you by any chance have a neutral source? I hope you can understand my concerns, but I usually don't consider Information provided by dealers as particularly reliable.

 

[Eric Adrignola]

Nutritious isn't the concern - hornworms ARE nutritious, just as superworms are. It's not good or bad, wer're talking about - it's QUANTITY. We can not replicate their diets, we can try, but we can only try. No matter the type of feeders, we have to be concerned with caloric intake - feed an adult veiled chameleon 5-10 crickets every two days, and the chanceds are thathe will get overweight, and die within 3-5 years max. It is extremely common for an overweight chameleon to just start to decline and die fo rno apparant reason - this is what fatty livers do to reptiles. they do not function like we do.

A chameleon that is always hungry, eating JUST enough food to provide calories to function and move about, will probably live twice as long as a chameleon with any noticable "plumpness" to it.

Superworms made up about 60% of the diet of my big male veiled who died last summer at 8 years old. He was very light for his size and was always hungry. I've seen fat chameleons that ate only crickets - it's quantity of calories, NOT fat content.

hornworms ARE very nutritious. Fact. Too much nutrition is why things get fat. Something like a bacon double cheeseburger would be "bad" for you because it is so nutrient dense. But, for someone who wants calories, it wouldnt' be bad. Same with hornworms, superworms, etc. healthy, sure. but If I were to feed them every day, that's like eatign a healthy meal 10X a day!

Quantity. too much, and your chameleon will die sooner.

 

[Julirs]

Ok-here is another thought...I do not have any fat chameleons that are eating Supers...but you do see PLENTY of overweight chameleons eating crickets??? I have to call owner error here.

Nutritious isn't the concern - hornworms ARE nutritious, just as superworms are. It's not good or bad, wer're talking about - it's QUANTITY. We can not replicate their diets, we can try, but we can only try. No matter the type of feeders, we have to be concerned with caloric intake - feed an adult veiled chameleon 5-10 crickets every two days, and the chanceds are thathe will get overweight, and die within 3-5 years max. It is extremely common for an overweight chameleon to just start to decline and die fo rno apparant reason - this is what fatty livers do to reptiles. they do not function like we do.

A chameleon that is always hungry, eating JUST enough food to provide calories to function and move about, will probably live twice as long as a chameleon with any noticable "plumpness" to it.

Superworms made up about 60% of the diet of my big male veiled who died last summer at 8 years old. He was very light for his size and was always hungry. I've seen fat chameleons that ate only crickets - it's quantity of calories, NOT fat content.

hornworms ARE very nutritious. Fact. Too much nutrition is why things get fat. Something like a bacon double cheeseburger would be "bad" for you because it is so nutrient dense. But, for someone who wants calories, it wouldnt' be bad. Same with hornworms, superworms, etc. healthy, sure. but If I were to feed them every day, that's like eatign a healthy meal 10X a day!

Quantity. too much, and your chameleon will die sooner.

Exactly what I said!

 

[jojackson]

they do find crickets since most of the crickets we buy are from yemen.

You buy crickets from Yemen? Why on earth?

P.s can somebody please post a link about breeding the worm you call zoophobia morio please. I have just aquired some and wish to get them started. Any tips on housing /substrate feeding temps etc appreciated
cheers

 

[Powers]

Your humanizing them again. After three bowls of ice-cream, I know that I should stop eating, if I don’t want to gain too much weight and consider rather eating a salad the next time. A chameleon unfortunatly isn’t that concerned about it’s diet.

If anything what I said is the OPPOSITE of humanizing them. You seem to know more about whats healthy for your chameleon than you do for your own body. There is a fine line between being a responsible pet owner, and being obsessive. When you know more about whats going into your chameleons body than whats going into your own body, your bordering on obsessive. Which I feel starts to make the hobby more of a chore.

 

[Fearaffect]

Lobster Roaches, Crickets, Meal Worms, Super Worms, Pinkies and the occasional Moth. Nice and varied for my critters.

 

[Fearaffect]

Oh yea, and some Wax Worms, and Phoenix Worms to as treats.....

 

[summoner12]

Lobster Roaches, Crickets, Meal Worms, Super Worms, Pinkies and the occasional Moth. Nice and varied for my critters.

how often are you feeding pinkies?

 

[summoner12]

All I know is people don't put half of the thought into what they eat as they do their chameleons. I'm sure no one on this board knows what the protein/calcium/phosphorus/fat %'s of their dinner was last night.

Your humanizing them again. After three bowls of ice-cream, I know that I should stop eating, if I don’t want to gain too much weight and consider rather eating a salad the next time. A chameleon unfortunatly isn’t that concerned about it’s diet.

I don't understand why you think Powers is humanizing his cham. He said we (us humans) think more about what types of feeders the chameleons we keep are going to eat for thier meals, more than we think about our own food.

Edit: I didn't see Powers had replied... I had typed this up and left it for a day without checking back before posting (was running late for work).

 

[Fearaffect]

how often are you feeding pinkies?

I feed them 2 times a month and only the Veileds will eat them.....and just one 1 to each Veiled.
My Beardies now....they will tear pinkies from each others mouths to have them....its like crack for them and I feed them pinkies once every other week and about 4-5 each time.

 

[critterguy]

I'd imagine chameleons in the wild feed mainly on orthopterans(grasshoppers and katydids...but well crickets/roaches will do in a pinch), and lepidopteran adults and larvae.(hornworms/other caterpillars and adults are not bad substitutes).

I have no cham keeping experience but I am surprised that they can go so long without food.

No mention of supplementation(using reptle vitamins and calcium with/without D3?) schedules for babies/juvies/adults. I think that also is important

 

[sandrachameleon]

P.s can somebody please post a link about breeding the worm you call zoophobia morio please. I have just aquired some and wish to get them started. Any tips on housing /substrate feeding temps etc appreciated
cheers

BocaJan has a blog entry with the basics: https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/bocajan/45-super-worm-breeding.html

 

[jojackson]

Thanks Sandra, I now have about 80 worms in progress and a colony of a few hundred from which to begin. I am forcing the pupation of about 40 worms each week so laying and growth is staggered to provide for different species (sizes). Im hoping to have a small colony by the end of winter, ready for spring.
If it works out it will be an ongoing thing as long as the lizards turtles and frogs enjoy them. Spring will bring more native bird rescues which will also benefit.

oops, how rude. Thankyou BocaJan too!