Substrate

Cait0420

Cait0420

New Member
Ok so my Vivarium is a customized aquarium with the sides cut out and screen doors on both sides and a screen top. I have quite a few plants and plan to get more. My question is can I use organic black earth soil as substrate (was recommended by a zoologist/Cham keeper) and cover the exposed areas with moss (my idea) This way I can just plant the whole bottom of the cage? Also I think it would look very nice. Any opinions? Also does it matter what type of moss I use? Thanks in advance for all replies!
 
It's possible but I see drainage being an issue as well as feeders hiding in the substrate. Any reason you don't want to do a bare bottom?
 
Hi Cait,
Most of us won't recommend any substrate on the bottom! It can cause more problems than be useful...
And yes, you have to have drainage system and the substrate would just make it more complicated. And don't forget about a choking hazard and they can get impacted!
 
zsazsa85 said:
Hi Cait,
Most of us won't recommend any substrate on the bottom! It can cause more problems than be useful...
And yes, you have to have drainage system and the substrate would just make it more complicated. And don't forget about a choking hazard and they can get impacted!
Click to expand...

That's why I was thinking to put moss on top,so they don't have access to the actual substrate, and drilling holes in the bottom
 
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Cait0420 said:
That's why I was thinking to put moss on top,so they don't have access to the actual substrate, and drilling holes in the bottom
Click to expand...

They would still eat the moss. My chameleon (when I had substrate) would still eat the moss over his dirt.

Substrate is in general a bad idea.

Even if you cup feed, feeders get out, and the chameleon may still be curious enough to eat the dirt/moss anyway.

Also, water holds in the moss/dirt and provides a HUGE breeding ground for all sorts of bacteria, even if you remove his poop a lot.

Just... It's never a good idea.
 
Ok thank you for the detailed response, so much for that idea! It's just that I've got so many plants in there I thought it would just be easier to plant the whole bottom
 
I had substrate in the bottom of my first enclosure when I originally bought my two ladies. Such a bad idea. Drainage was an absolute nightmare, and it got REALLY smelly. I'm convinced thats how Zuri got her RI...
 
christineacero said:
I had substrate in the bottom of my first enclosure when I originally bought my two ladies. Such a bad idea. Drainage was an absolute nightmare, and it got REALLY smelly. I'm convinced thats how Zuri got her RI...
Click to expand...

Right. Basically substrates are a risk and take a huge amount of attention to work well. There's really no need for one either. If you have a setup for a terrestrial herp it may be worth it, but not for a cham. Maybe you could pot some of your plants together in larger pots or small oblong planters instead? You could still cover the soil surfaces with larger river rocks or screen to keep feeders and tongues out.
 
Potting them together sounds good! And I don't want my little ones getting an RI, it was just a thought and I wanted to see what everyone had to say one way or another. I'm gonna have to go but some pots cuz all my small vine clippings are in those little jiffy pots and then I've got a few pothos. Christine what do you use on the bottom? I read on here about green wool felt that it's really easy to clean and soaks up extra water and you just wring it out rinse in the sink and microwave
 
Cait0420 said:
Potting them together sounds good! And I don't want my little ones getting an RI, it was just a thought and I wanted to see what everyone had to say one way or another. I'm gonna have to go but some pots cuz all my small vine clippings are in those little jiffy pots and then I've got a few pothos. Christine what do you use on the bottom? I read on here about green wool felt that it's really easy to clean and soaks up extra water
Click to expand...

Fabrics, especially natural fibers like wool or cotton will mold eventually unless you can switch it out very easily. If its laid out under all your pots you won't want to move all the pots around to remove and wash it very often. It will stain eventually. Actually, now that I've tried various cage bottom options over the years I now prefer the clean simple bare floor with a cluster of attractive pots. You can pick a theme for your pots (all one color or material, etc) so they don't seem as haphazard.

Just EMBRACE the POT REALITY! :p
 
Carlton said:
Fabrics, especially natural fibers like wool or cotton will mold eventually unless you can switch it out very easily. If its laid out under all your pots you won't want to move all the pots around to remove and wash it very often. It will stain eventually. Actually, now that I've tried various cage bottom options over the years I now prefer the clean simple bare floor with a cluster of attractive pots. You can pick a theme for your pots (all one color or material, etc) so they don't seem as haphazard.

Just EMBRACE the POT REALITY! :p
Click to expand...

Will do! Goin pot shoppin! Lol
 
I rigged up a drainage system for my enclosure so I have a screen bottom. I put pieces of wood across both sides to sit my plants on to take the weight of my potted plants. Its not pretty, but it does the trick!
 
substrate is quite common in Europe. cocopeat is one option (example https://www.chameleonforums.com/terrarium-pictures-23200/) Done right, its not the negative that this forum sometimes sees it as being. And a fully planted cage can look quite nice. but it does take more effort/care than a bare bottom.

you'll likely have trouble keeping moss alive. But if you try it, use a short variety - long stringy types if ingested can get twisted up in intestines.
 
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sandrachameleon said:
Done right, its not the negative that this forum sometimes sees it as being. And a fully planted cage can look quite nice. but it does take more effort/care than a bare bottom.
Click to expand...

+1
not necessarily for the beginner, but substrate isnt an immediate no...its not like chams dont run into dirt in the wild...

a large slab of hygrolon would keep enough moisture to grow moss and other plants and you wouldnt have to worry about the cham eating it, as it would be too big. you could even grow edible plants like baby's tears, which my ambilobe devours.

hygrolon:
http://folius.com/product-category/media/hygrolon/

I have a planted tank myself, the worry of drainage isnt as big as people make it out to be; if the tank is heavily planted then they soak up a lot of the water. I do two 5min misting sessions at the beginning and end of each day, as well as a 2min session mid day to keep the humidity level consistent

I have yet to run into a problem, but you will have to watch out for mold or fungus; but so do people who overwater their potted plants (its a frequent discussion on this board). A diluted hydrogen peroxide spray once a month kills spores and bacteria in the soil/hygrolon and helps to aerate the roots.
 
chefboyardee said:
I have yet to run into a problem, but you will have to watch out for mold or fungus; but so do people who overwater their potted plants (its a frequent discussion on this board). A diluted hydrogen peroxide spray once a month kills spores and bacteria in the soil/hygrolon and helps to aerate the roots.
Click to expand...

This is very interesting! Makes sense, but I wouldn't have thought of it. Thank you for sharing it.
 
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