substrate in reptarium?

[juice28]

So I stumbled across this blog and it was kind of interesting..its about an apogee reptarium and using substrate..not saying im going to follow suite but i was wondering what is you all's opinion of this http://www.veiled-chameleon.com/weblog/archives/000154.html

 

[Oliviabryant]

Maybe if you had a snake that would be ok, however for a chameleon it's frowned upon. It can easily cause impaction if your chameleon happens to eat any subtrate while hunting for food, they usually can not help it seeing as their tounges are very sticky. Impaction may also lead to death.
If you want to put anything in the bottom use sanitized river rocks larger than an adult sized chams head. Also for the reptariums the visqueen is unecessary because you can purchase soft trays for the bottom made by the same company.

Are you planning to use this for the panther you have ?

 

[Oliviabryant]

Not that I'm a master at doing chameleon set ups but here is the current state of my reptarium. I'm getting ready to build a drainage system for it to sit on. Also the top that holds the light was built by my boyfriend pretty nifty

 

[chameleonowner32]

Nice reptarium. anyway i could see a close up unzipped. I debated the 260 but got the 175 because for me it was easier drainage.

 

[Seiryu]

I would look at checking this site out. It is written by Chris Anderson.

http://www.chameleonnews.com/10JulAndersonGlass.html

You have to be smart about it really. If your chameleon is eating soil, then it is definitely not one suited for this. Usually though, if your chameleon IS eating soil it is lacking something in it'd diet it is trying to correct. Not ALWAYS the case, but most times.

 

[Oliviabryant]

Nice reptarium. anyway i could see a close up unzipped. I debated the 260 but got the 175 because for me it was easier drainage.

When I get home later ill take a picture with the front open, maybe with a better camera too. I could see how the 175 gal is better for a drainage stand if you have shorter ceilings. I'm lucky enough to have high ones so it doesn't bother me.

 

[juice28]

Maybe if you had a snake that would be ok, however for a chameleon it's frowned upon. It can easily cause impaction if your chameleon happens to eat any subtrate while hunting for food, they usually can not help it seeing as their tounges are very sticky. Impaction may also lead to death.
If you want to put anything in the bottom use sanitized river rocks larger than an adult sized chams head. Also for the reptariums the visqueen is unecessary because you can purchase soft trays for the bottom made by the same company.

Are you planning to use this for the panther you have ?

she is LONG way away from something that big lol but not sure.. i wouldnt do what was said is the link i posted.. seems like double work like you said ..why not just use the tray? ive never actually seen a reptarium or the trays for them..they say theyre soft trays so im wondering.. youd have to set them on something solid like a table or something because the bottom isnt solid.. like the reptibreeze has so it couldnt hang over.. my current r-breeze's are on a slight forward angle and hang over the edge of a shelf a bit so the water drains forward into a tote.. but that wouldnt work for some thing with a flexible bottom. how do you all drain yous cages now or do you not really have to worry about drainage

 

[juice28]

I would look at checking this site out. It is written by Chris Anderson.

http://www.chameleonnews.com/10JulAndersonGlass.html

You have to be smart about it really. If your chameleon is eating soil, then it is definitely not one suited for this. Usually though, if your chameleon IS eating soil it is lacking something in it'd diet it is trying to correct. Not ALWAYS the case, but most times.

ill probably get bashed for being cheap..but as much as id like a 3 foot wide, 3 foot deep 4-5 foot tall vivarium....theres no way id pay that much for an enclosure that size lol

 

[Seiryu]

ill probably get bashed for being cheap..but as much as id like a 3 foot wide, 3 foot deep 4-5 foot tall vivarium....theres no way id pay that much for an enclosure that size lol

Yes, one that size would be extremely expensive. It depends on what species and what age too. Smaller species you can get away with something like a 2x2x3 tall if you have plenty of plants/driftwood etc.

Same for Juvie veiled/panthers. Something like a 2x2x3 could last until ~6-7 months old or so. But who would want to do all that work for a temporary enclosure lol!

 

[Olimpia]

The only reason I don't use substrate in my chameleon cages (besides the laying bins) is because it's a huge hassle with all the water and keeping it in a screen cage. But all my other reptiles have always had fully planted, soil and all, terrariums. Impaction is a risk, but a small one in my honest opinion. I've had more impaction problems with my dog swallowing toys (3 times) than with reptiles having access to sand or soil (none.)

 

[Chameleopatrick]

Impaction is a risk, but a small one in my honest opinion. I've had more impaction problems with my dog swallowing toys (3 times) than with reptiles having access to sand or soil (none.)

The constant parroting about impaction amazes me. Not once in twenty years have I ever seen this happen. Your chances of a chameleon choking on a oversized cricket are probably much greater.

 

[Olimpia]

The constant parroting about impaction amazes me. Not once in twenty years have I ever seen this happen. Your chances of a chameleon choking on a oversized cricket are probably much greater.

Very true. I've always thought it was ironic that you had to cover up all your plant pots with stones but also provide a 5 gal bucket of sand or soil to your female at all times.

 

[Chameleopatrick]

Very true. I've always thought it was ironic that you had to cover up all your plant pots with stones but also provide a 5 gal bucket of sand or soil to your female at all times.

I don't even provide a bin for egg laying. A keeper with any experience will know when a female is ready to lay. Typically they begin to wander on the bottom of the habitat. Once this happens I always just place the gravid female in a bucket with moist sand and a predug hole. If they're ready to lay, they go right for the hole.

I'm not saying that all substrate is bad, I'm sure it can be used with satisfactory results. But saying its bad, then using paper towels? Ahhhhhh well.......

If the keeper is a chronic waterer, then substrate isn't probably a good idea.

 

[Oliviabryant]

I don't cover my plants soil. But I don't really believe in substrate for chameleons. My veiled practically never goes on the floor because he has a million other things to climb on so what would even be the point?

Impaction can be avoided by cup feeding but I'd rather not chance it because I let my feeders loose in that enclosure ^_^
Besides worms which go in the cup.

As for people thinking my enclosures expensive- HAH I spent 100$ for my cage and that was with shipping.

As for drainage- mine doesn't require anything that intense because the foliage catches all except a few drips which are stopped by the paper towels. I have a small piece of visqueen under the enclosure as well. I have yet to purchase a soft tray because I don't really need it but at the same time ill probably buy one just to ditch the visqueen.

Soft trays have a shape and will not collapse but are called soft because they are not made from PVC like a lot of trays are.

Here is an example

http://www.joshsfrogs.com/reptarium-soft-tray-100-gallon-tall-for-sale.html

 

[Oliviabryant]

I don't even provide a bin for egg laying. A keeper with any experience will know when a female is ready to lay. Typically they begin to wander on the bottom of the habitat. Once this happens I always just place the gravid female in a bucket with moist sand and a predug hole. If they're ready to lay, they go right for the hole.

I'm not saying that all substrate is bad, I'm sure it can be used with satisfactory results. But saying its bad, then using paper towels? Ahhhhhh well.......

If the keeper is a chronic waterer, then substrate isn't probably a good idea.

I agree - in the end the mixture of poop, urate and moisture isn't such a good idea. You would have to replace it every 5 days. It's not like the Cham is really benefitting from the substrate anyhow so personally i dont see the point.
It's a money pit, money people could be investing in quality feeders and enclosures. If anything river rocks are good, you can sanitize/reuse and the absorb water drops.

 

[juice28]

Yes, one that size would be extremely expensive. It depends on what species and what age too. Smaller species you can get away with something like a 2x2x3 tall if you have plenty of plants/driftwood etc.

Same for Juvie veiled/panthers. Something like a 2x2x3 could last until ~6-7 months old or so. But who would want to do all that work for a temporary enclosure lol!

exactly lol too much for something temporary IMO( in terms of veileds and panthers)

The only reason I don't use substrate in my chameleon cages (besides the laying bins) is because it's a huge hassle with all the water and keeping it in a screen cage. But all my other reptiles have always had fully planted, soil and all, terrariums. Impaction is a risk, but a small one in my honest opinion. I've had more impaction problems with my dog swallowing toys (3 times) than with reptiles having access to sand or soil (none.)

this is the first reptile ive had with nosub. and i agree impaction is minimal risk..im sure in the wild they eat way coarser stuff than...sand or potting soil with no problems lol.. and yea my dog is like a trash can.. came home one day and she was laid out wimpering...then i saw it.. behind her in the corner looked like a 2-3 foot white snake untill i got closer to her and saw an empty box of instant mashed potatoes(half the box was gone..the literal box) and half a bag of raw rice...it came out exactly how it went down LMAO...her lil but was hurtin and she walked funny for a few days one of the funniest things ive seen to date

 

[juice28]

Very true. I've always thought it was ironic that you had to cover up all your plant pots with stones but also provide a 5 gal bucket of sand or soil to your female at all times.

LMAO... i thought i was the only one...i was like.. hmm..that doesnt make sense to me...

 

[SaintJimmy]

I "parrot" about impaction because it is a risk at least for me.

If you have a chameleon lacking vitamins (like mine was) it will try and eat the dirt just because it wants more vitamins or whatever. I added more calcium to his crickets and multivitamins (dusted heavier I mean) and he STILL was eating the dirt.

Big pieces, too. It's just a big scare. And it IS a possible way for them to die.

So, I covered it with rocks to be safe. Better safe than sorry.

 

[Mike Fisher]

The constant parroting about impaction amazes me. Not once in twenty years have I ever seen this happen. Your chances of a chameleon choking on a oversized cricket are probably much greater.

Agreed. All of my enclosures are fully planted, I use sand/peat moss mix. The chameleons are smart enough to wait for their feeders to not be on the substrate before shooting them. I have an aversion to anything that does not look natural in their habitats. No paper towels or newspaper for me.

 

[juice28]

I don't cover my plants soil. But I don't really believe in substrate for chameleons. My veiled practically never goes on the floor because he has a million other things to climb on so what would even be the point?

Impaction can be avoided by cup feeding but I'd rather not chance it because I let my feeders loose in that enclosure ^_^
Besides worms which go in the cup.

As for people thinking my enclosures expensive- HAH I spent 100$ for my cage and that was with shipping.

As for drainage- mine doesn't require anything that intense because the foliage catches all except a few drips which are stopped by the paper towels. I have a small piece of visqueen under the enclosure as well. I have yet to purchase a soft tray because I don't really need it but at the same time ill probably buy one just to ditch the visqueen.

Soft trays have a shape and will not collapse but are called soft because they are not made from PVC like a lot of trays are.

Here is an example

http://www.joshsfrogs.com/reptarium-soft-tray-100-gallon-tall-for-sale.html

thanks that help alot with the tray thing b/c i see them packaged not "in use" so that explains alot as to how they work..seems like a no no for a cham set up though.. its just going to create a pool at the bottom and its not like you can just.. slide it out or off.. youd have to take the raptarium apart to remove it