Hello all. This is my first post, I just signed up. For basic reference, I used to breed numerous reptiles, amphibians and inverts. As a job. I have kept carpet, oustelets, mellers, veileds, panthers, jacksons and werneri. As well as hundreds of species of lizards, snakes and frogs over the years. Most we were breeding for wholesale. However this was many years ago and also indoors in north America. I just want to preface with that. I am well schooled in care, feeding, nutrition and the like. I no longer am involved with that industry and have no interest in getting back into it. But I do enjoy a few happy pets to observe at home.
A couple decades later, I am back in Taiwan. And outdoor keeping is now a possibility (unlike western Canada and usa, which was too cold). Keeping these species outdoors I am not so experienced with.
I live in southern Taiwan, the latitude is about 22.5 degrees north. Summers are hot, as are the tropics. The winters in my valley drop down to 10 degrees at night when it's "cold". But normally my microclimate is that of "Hawaii" climate. Though our coldest winter freak snaps certainly drop below theirs. We have seen 6 degrees once in the last 20 years. For 1 night. 10-16 degrees is normal for brief couple day night time drops here in cold spells during winter. Otherwise we are normally 25-39 during the day and a few degrees cooler at night. My spots humidity is normally 80's and 90's with random dry winds which we can see 60% RH. Rare, but happens a few times every year, absolutely. We get strong typhoons but my enclosure would be protect against our house with a solid roof, so won't get damaged. But winds will be real sometimes, I am confident I can solve that with plants and hides they can escape to. All that to say, air flow and humidity should t be an issue. Dew points/fog is a possible issue. ?
So now to my question. My absolute favorite chameleon species in the world is the Jackson's Chameleon. By far, by a lot. Every breeder I have talked to here says they are hard to keep and die easy (babies). A note about Taiwan and us in the herp trade: most people here keep them indoors and most have zero ethics. Air condition, dry air etc etc. So I take their experience with a hefty grain of salt. I would like to think pragmaticly because Hawaii is hotter, and they are a naturalized species there. I am wondering what could be different here.
To my specific idea on enclosure. Outdoors. Thus, LOTS of airflow, which is something I focused on way back when indoors in North America. I have what could be compared to a balcony, albiet it ground level, with a roof and it is east-west oriented building. Concrete construction. Meaning they can always have shade and a sliver of direct sun during the day. My maximum space allowed (I can divide the enclosure no issue), is about 1.5m in depth (the roof overhangs 2.5m, for shade) and up to 4m in length. 3m high max, but we don't flood so I don't feel that's an issue. Tall enough for sure. Walk in enclosure, maybe with a couple chairs for a good morning coffee and a good book.
With these parameters, I am wondering if a mountain species is actually suitable. Our company is nursery and AG supply, so we have a LOT of plant varieties we can utilize. And we are organic, so no issues of sprays etc.
I am wondering if this species is said to be hard here, but they live in Hawaii just fine, this must be a husbandry problem indoors (it's hard to get a direct answer from the breeders I have contacted, saving face here is no joke).
Am I being selfish in wanting my favorite species, or is there hope having basically a free and wild environment for them? just with a cage around them to prevent escape and predators (will be screen for airflow, thus basically the same as free range at the above dimensions).
My options for Jackson's are babies from WC mom's. Not my favorite as I really detest WC. But if from the US I am fine as they are a foreign species.
Food isn't an issue, I have cultures of flies, crickets, roaches and moths already for other animals we are keeping, and the appropriate vitamin supplements are easily available.
Would love opinions on the matter.
Ps. I know they are vastly different, but veileds have fully naturalized here. But they are far hardier. As have green iguanas, brown anoles and various other "Florida type invasive species". Just for a basic reference.
I appreciate any thoughts, even if it may be a hard no. But I'm thinking it should be fine. That said, I haven't kept chameleons for about 20 years and the information now might be different than back then
Thanks for any input, even if it seems a hard no.
A couple decades later, I am back in Taiwan. And outdoor keeping is now a possibility (unlike western Canada and usa, which was too cold). Keeping these species outdoors I am not so experienced with.
I live in southern Taiwan, the latitude is about 22.5 degrees north. Summers are hot, as are the tropics. The winters in my valley drop down to 10 degrees at night when it's "cold". But normally my microclimate is that of "Hawaii" climate. Though our coldest winter freak snaps certainly drop below theirs. We have seen 6 degrees once in the last 20 years. For 1 night. 10-16 degrees is normal for brief couple day night time drops here in cold spells during winter. Otherwise we are normally 25-39 during the day and a few degrees cooler at night. My spots humidity is normally 80's and 90's with random dry winds which we can see 60% RH. Rare, but happens a few times every year, absolutely. We get strong typhoons but my enclosure would be protect against our house with a solid roof, so won't get damaged. But winds will be real sometimes, I am confident I can solve that with plants and hides they can escape to. All that to say, air flow and humidity should t be an issue. Dew points/fog is a possible issue. ?
So now to my question. My absolute favorite chameleon species in the world is the Jackson's Chameleon. By far, by a lot. Every breeder I have talked to here says they are hard to keep and die easy (babies). A note about Taiwan and us in the herp trade: most people here keep them indoors and most have zero ethics. Air condition, dry air etc etc. So I take their experience with a hefty grain of salt. I would like to think pragmaticly because Hawaii is hotter, and they are a naturalized species there. I am wondering what could be different here.
To my specific idea on enclosure. Outdoors. Thus, LOTS of airflow, which is something I focused on way back when indoors in North America. I have what could be compared to a balcony, albiet it ground level, with a roof and it is east-west oriented building. Concrete construction. Meaning they can always have shade and a sliver of direct sun during the day. My maximum space allowed (I can divide the enclosure no issue), is about 1.5m in depth (the roof overhangs 2.5m, for shade) and up to 4m in length. 3m high max, but we don't flood so I don't feel that's an issue. Tall enough for sure. Walk in enclosure, maybe with a couple chairs for a good morning coffee and a good book.
With these parameters, I am wondering if a mountain species is actually suitable. Our company is nursery and AG supply, so we have a LOT of plant varieties we can utilize. And we are organic, so no issues of sprays etc.
I am wondering if this species is said to be hard here, but they live in Hawaii just fine, this must be a husbandry problem indoors (it's hard to get a direct answer from the breeders I have contacted, saving face here is no joke).
Am I being selfish in wanting my favorite species, or is there hope having basically a free and wild environment for them? just with a cage around them to prevent escape and predators (will be screen for airflow, thus basically the same as free range at the above dimensions).
My options for Jackson's are babies from WC mom's. Not my favorite as I really detest WC. But if from the US I am fine as they are a foreign species.
Food isn't an issue, I have cultures of flies, crickets, roaches and moths already for other animals we are keeping, and the appropriate vitamin supplements are easily available.
Would love opinions on the matter.
Ps. I know they are vastly different, but veileds have fully naturalized here. But they are far hardier. As have green iguanas, brown anoles and various other "Florida type invasive species". Just for a basic reference.
I appreciate any thoughts, even if it may be a hard no. But I'm thinking it should be fine. That said, I haven't kept chameleons for about 20 years and the information now might be different than back then
Thanks for any input, even if it seems a hard no.
