Stupid panther question

juice28

New Member
ok.. i been looking at panthers for a long time...still feel like I dont know know jack about all the different variations...i see ambanja's that look like ambilobe's..vice versa.. now my question is (and forgive me for being so green, no pun intended lol)

But...what is the difference between a faly and Be? i see alot of pictures of nosy be's that look like faly's..and faly's that look like be's.. at least to me..

doing basic research, says nosy Be is blue/teal with varying shades of blue in the barring with the horizontal white stripe but i see a TON of pics of nosy be's that have alot of the red dots through the body and eyes and slight greenish yellow around the mouth and eyes and seem to have alot of white in the "body" and i thought that was a trait of the nosy faly..white body with blue bars wit the "red rain" and yellow/greenish yellow around the eyes and mouth.

i read that both can have the yellow but im a visual person so i kinda have to see it to really get it and in the pics ive seen, it seems to be stronger in the faly's than on the be's..i was looking for differences in the two so ive been doing alot of searching and i came across the "available chams" page on the chameleon company website and the nosy faly pictured and the nosy be look..well they look pretty much the same...but when i go to screameleons theyre nosy be's look like what is described in text as characteristic nosy be and their falys look like what ive read as textbook for a faly...i know specific breeding does alot for looks but is that why theyre nosy be's are pretty much straight blue? due to breeding out the other traits like alot of the red rain dots and vice versa for the faly's?
 

carol5208

Chameleon Enthusiast
Yes, it is all pretty much about the genes and breeding, but sometimes the offspring turn out and don't look much like the sire at all. Their colors are for ever evolving, so you have a chameleon look one way and a year later it can completely change. And btw, not a stupid question at all!!!
 
I actually brought this up a while back, this is why you should only buy from a reputable breeder aka any site sponsor and there's a handful more who aren't sponsors but they are on the forum. Many people will have a line that had a hybrid far back so some babies will come out looking nothing like the locale. Ambilobes have a very wide range of looks.
Nosy bes should really only have 2- true blue or they will be blue-green with some red rain. Many people seem to confuse masola with tamatave and tamatave with Maroantsetra.
There are very fine lines between some locales but there surely is a difference.
At the same time a lot of people do not believe in a some locales and they feel like a few locales are actually just a variation of one.
 
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SaintJimmy

Avid Member
Nosy faly are usually blue with whitish stripes with red flecks in it.

Nosy be are usually ALL blue with a tiny bit of red or yellow around their face or something close to that.


EDIT olivia did the work for me
 

Olimpia

Biologist & Ecologist
Nosy Bes don't just come in blue, any shade of blue-green is also fair game. Most WC Nosy bes will lean more towards green/teal than a true blue or turquoise. And some do have more yellow in the body, not just around the mouth.
 

juice28

New Member
Yes, it is all pretty much about the genes and breeding, but sometimes the offspring turn out and don't look much like the sire at all. Their colors are for ever evolving, so you have a chameleon look one way and a year later it can completely change. And btw, not a stupid question at all!!!

ok i was wondering and thinking it was specific breeding

I actually brought this up a while back, this is why you should only buy from a reputable breeder aka any site sponsor and there's a handful more who aren't sponsors but they are on the forum. Many people will have a line that had a hybrid far back so some babies will come out looking nothing like the locale. Ambilobes have a very wide range of looks.
Nosy bes should really only have 2- true blue or they will be blue-green with some red rain. Many people seem to confuse masola with tamatave and tamatave with Maroantsetra.
There are very fine lines between some locales but there surely is a difference.
At the same time a lot of people do not believe in a some locales and they feel like a few locales are actually just a variation of one.

yea ive seen tons of ambilobe color variations. ive used the pics online many times to get a visually idea of what its supposed to look like with the "v" and the "u" etc. but from what ive read, the be's and faly's are distinguished more by color than a pattern shape

Nosy Be's don't just come in blue, any shade of blue-green is also fair game. Most WC Nosy bes will lean more towards green/teal than a true blue or turquoise. And some do have more yellow in the body, not just around the mouth.

yea, ive seen alot of teal Be's more than straight blue (in pictures)


so is it just me, or do you see alot of one called the other or is my eye just untrained lol
 

ian kerr

New Member
my Nosy Be male

20130907_141311_zps85ea0a83.jpg

pic taken outside in natural light in U.K...thats rare!! lol
 

sandrachameleon

Chameleon Enthusiast
Nosy faly are usually blue with whitish stripes with red flecks in it.

Nosy be are usually ALL blue with a tiny bit of red or yellow around their face or something close to that.


EDIT olivia did the work for me

not entirely true. Nosy Be are not usually all blue. It is designer breeding that has resulted in high true blue nose be. the natural nose be is not entirely blue most times. they are more commonly teal in colour, and red dots/rain and yellow is not unnatural / uncommon
 

CarlC

Established Member
Finding a true blue in the wild is just about not going to happen. The color form found on Nosy Be is as others have described- teal and green. It is possible that before collecting became rampant on this small island there where all blue animals with small amounts of white and yellow. The almost all blue animals seen today come from selective breeding.

When visiting places like Ambanja, Ambilobe, Tamatave, and Antsiranana you will find the core area of the population of panthers have consistent coloring from one to another. I can post 50 pictures of core area Ambanja's I photographed in the wild and you would think they were the same animal. The further you get from that core area you will see color variations. The "outsiders" on the fringe area's don't make it into the core area.

Carl
 

juice28

New Member
that's a good looking be. I wrote this while I was looking for a male panther Cham. I looked at tons of pictures of the more commonly available locals and was highly impressed. But...when i ran across the pictures of the be's and faly's, i saw alot of pics of falys and be's that look alike...excluding the bred super blue be and the super white and red faly..

i know the difference from what he books say and the pictures lol but I've never actually seen one in person. I now have a 5 month faly male after doing a ton of searching and im very happy with him. :) i was just wondering if anyone else though that by definition, alot of the two locals could pass for either..(in my unprofessional opinion)
 

sandrachameleon

Chameleon Enthusiast
yes, some locals can look a lot like each other.
and there are also a lot of local crosses, which can make it even more confusing, especially if you're new to chameleons
congrats on your new panther :)
 

pssh

Avid Member
Some faly and nosy be can look similar, especially when one doesn't have the experience factor to see the sometimes subtle differences. Some Be's have quite a bit of red spots, but generally won't have them outlining the bars like Faly's do. Some Faly's are low-white which further adds to the confusion. And on top of that, it is very possible that some animals are crosses (apparently because of some releases on the island, some of the WC are even crosses.) Plus you have to consider that there can be some pretty big differences between fired up animals vs. the non fired up state.

In other words, buy from a reputable breeder so you don't have to deal with the headache.
 

juice28

New Member
Lol yea, I've noticed. I did alot of searching until I found one I felt comfy with, the breeder provided line history and pics of parents. Im happy with my choice....i just need more space for more cages for more locals LMAO
 
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