stop eating sand!

whitespyder

whitespyder

New Member
my girl veiled refuses to stop eating sand in her laying bin. my angry mom glare is enough to make her stop when i catch her walking down to it but sometimes she sneaks a few licks and i notice some grains of sand stuck on her lips or i hear her chewing it. she has been pooping though so im happy shes not impacted. in fact, shes been pooping almost twice a day so i dont know if thats normal or not. (half of it is probably sand as i have found sand in her feces often)

i know that chams usually do this in the wild but its really been worrying me, especially since her poop usually lands in the laying bin and i dont want her getting herself sick. i take out the surrounding sand when i clean her poops but what if shes getting to it before i clean it? gross
 
Seems you have a particularly curious lizard, a female at that.
Perhaps change the laying media to something more easily passed.
Sand does go through, but does have a tendency for particles to stick to intestinal wells and build up over time.
:)
 
How do her urates look? I have found that my chameleon Waldo attempts to eat sand or soil when thirsty for the moisture in it. I do not know one hundred percent that is the reason but I increased misting and never saw it happen again. There is also no evidence of it in her poop as well. Increase your mistings and let me know if that helps.
 
her urates are completely white and almost liquidy since ive been feeding her silkies and i hear thats common since they have alot of water in them. ill give it a try though :) thanks

jojackson, what other substrates are easy to pass? i used to use coconut husk fiber but i think that would be worse.
 
Yes that probly would be worse.
Perhaps some sifted natural organic soil. You can buy that at various nurserys and probly at walmart. Triple check the packaging to ensure nothing is added, such as fertilisers, water soaker crystals etc, and sift it as finely as possible to remove small bits of stone, woods etc.

fine organic soil free from large particle debris and any chemical additives, should be both safe and easy for your lizard to pass if she insist on munching it. :)

I think its worth doing, since you cant avoid having a laying box for a female, even if you remove it between clutches, its not that often or expensive.
If shes constantly licking the sand, the chances of sand particles building up inside her over the long term will be greater.

Good luck with your funny little lizard! :)
 
i have a bag of miracle gro organic soil for her pothos (i cover the soil with screening) but i believe it has chicken litter in it, and isnt that a fertilizer? if it is ill have to try and find something else. thanks!

390621.jpg
 
Chicken litter/poo =fertiliser yeah. Id look for an organic soil that dosent have that stuff. Your walmart garden section or similar should have a huge range of that stuff, just read the bag very carefully, and if in doubt, dont!
Organic peatmoss (without anything added) is also often used and should be suitable.

Its really difficult these days to find natural soil without some crap added.
Aside from being non toxic and easy to pass if your lizard eats it, the main properties of your laying media should be that it retains some moisture so that when the lizard digs tunnels, they retain structure and dont collapse on it.
Almost anything that fits these criteria will do, since you will remove the eggs to artificially incubate.

Time to go shopping! :)
 
There is one kind of sand that my veileds have ingested from time to time that has never caused any impactions...passes right through them. Its produced by Kings and comes in a white bag with red, blue and yellow sand box toys on it. Its a pale color compared to most playsands.
 
kinyonga said:
There is one kind of sand that my veileds have ingested from time to time that has never caused any impactions...passes right through them. Its produced by Kings and comes in a white bag with red, blue and yellow sand box toys on it. Its a pale color compared to most playsands.
Click to expand...

personaly, I don't trust that any sand is safe if eaten.
most of the time, impactions from sand take time and and don't kill right away.
in fact, just because you see some sand pass through the cham in the poop, doesn't mean that there isn't any retained sand.
http://hubpages.com/hub/Impaction

whitespider,
I personaly believe she is eating sand in order to get extra moisture.
I would cover up the sand or remove the laying bin for a while and not only try an added misting but also try adding some veggies and fruits to her diet.
I fear that if you only try using a different media for the laying been, it wont stop her from eating that too, possably for the added moisture.
she is getting into a bad habit, so now is the time to try and break it.

once you see her walking on the bottom of the cage you can add back the laying bin for her to lay the eggs....or if you notice she is gravid.

Harry
 
I'm rather new to chams but am not new to animals husbandry. Is it possible that she is eating the sand trying to get minerals or some sort of supplement other than moisture? I know with several animals that I have dealt with, mostly mammals, when they eat dirt or substrate, they are typically looking for a nutrient they are lacking. Just a thought...

Thom O
 
Warpdrive said..."personaly, I don't trust that any sand is safe if eaten.
most of the time, impactions from sand take time and and don't kill right away.
in fact, just because you see some sand pass through the cham in the poop, doesn't mean that there isn't any retained sand.
http://hubpages.com/hub/Impaction"...I have used this sand for years and the chameleons that ate it lived for several years after they ate it...and I always have necropsies done on my chameleons...and there were no impactions. So...although I don't trust other sands, I trust this one.

Fool2Think...its generally thought that they eat the sand to get nutrients not to get moisture....but I don't know of any studies that have proved this.
 
kinyonga said:
Warpdrive said..."personaly, I don't trust that any sand is safe if eaten.
most of the time, impactions from sand take time and and don't kill right away.
in fact, just because you see some sand pass through the cham in the poop, doesn't mean that there isn't any retained sand.
http://hubpages.com/hub/Impaction"...I have used this sand for years and the chameleons that ate it lived for several years after they ate it...and I always have necropsies done on my chameleons...and there were no impactions. So...although I don't trust other sands, I trust this one.

Fool2Think...its generally thought that they eat the sand to get nutrients not to get moisture....but I don't know of any studies that have proved this.
Click to expand...

I'm glad to hear that you trust this sand so much, because I've been looking for sand for a laying bin for my new female ambilobe.
I'll try to do a search for it, but if you have a link or photo it would be realy helpfull.
also, it could be that what you are feeding and the gutload is so good that it helps to pass the sand easyer for your chams....just something to think about. ;)

btw, I agree that while not proven, they could be trying to get extra minerals from soil or sand...yet in this case, I have a gut feeling it has to do with moisture.

why do I "feel" this is the anser?
well, if I'm not mistaken, this cham is also eating alot of plant leaves.
one of the reasons for this besides the food intake is because they are trying to get extra moisture.

leaf eating, wet sand eating...this cham is looking for something.
could it be more food? more moisture? who can say.
personaly, I would like to know more info as to what feeders are used and what the gutload is like, so a better anser could be made.
I will say this though...this habbit needs to be stoped now even if safer sand is used.

Harry
 
As my friend jo mentioned get non fertlized soil. Vincent from Screameleons turned me onto PRO MIX non fetilizer soil, sold at all Home Depots. Good luck.
 
Increasing access to water never hurts.
Providing silkworms and other juicy non-crunchy feeders is a good plan, to help flush the grit through.
And Perhaps a review of what you are feeding her, along with what you are feeding the feeders and dusting them with is in order.
In the meantime, consider removing or covering the laying bin, unless she is expected to be laying very soon.

I had a female who would eat anything - sand; twigs; fingernails, rings & eyeballs (attempted); the cage door when it moved/opened; and pretty much anything that might maybe be food. Sometimes they are just like that, perpetually hungry even though well fed, and you have to be extra careful about what the animal has access too and provide good alternatives
 
Last edited:
thanks for your input you guys :) ill give you the whole fill-in lol,

Cage Type - Mesh Reptarium 16.5 x 16.5 x 30” standing vertically
Lighting - 40 watt house bulb for heat, 18” Reptisun 5.0 for UV. Both resting on top of the mesh, both on from 9am to 10pm
Temperature – basking spot is 80-82, ambient temp is between 70-80. overnight is 70-75. measured with analog thermometer
Humidity – usually 55 but will go up to 60 when misting. Measured with analog hydrometer. Maintained with several short mistings during the day
Plants – plenty of vines, silk/plastic plants and a live pothos plant, plenty of shade and hiding areas
Placement – on top of my dresser in my bedroom. ceiling of cage is 5’7” off ground
Location – new jersey shore

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled chameleon, female, 7-8 months, since May 25, 2009
Handling – probably twice a week for no longer than 10 minutes each handling
Feeding – mostly silkworms and crickets with occasional waxworm, mealworm, superworm, phoenixworms, rarely fruits. Crickets are gutloaded with a puréed dark greens medly, carrots, apple, waxworms with bran and honey, mealworms and super worms with carrot/apple and bran, silkies with mulberry food. She gets either 5-6 half inch crickets and a few worms, or two medium size silkworms. I feed her in the afternoon everyday and maybe a few small treats throughout the day.
Supplements – Rep-cal calcium without D3 every other feeding, Rep-cal calcium w/ D3 twice a month, Reptivite vitamins once a month
Watering – hand pump mister 3 times a day on the plants for about 5 minutes each, dripper used in between mistings. I see her drinking occasionally or standing by the dripper, shes very shy
Fecal Description – neg for parasites, brown to tan in color, sometimes with sand in it, urates are white
History - bought her from petsmart, shes missing a toe
Current Problem – finds delicacy in the finest of sands

i feel as if shes getting plenty of moisture especially since ive started feeding her silkies so i dont know why she would be wanting to get more. her urates are already very white and almost liquidy. ill up the amount of misting though anyway. if it helps, ive only noticed her eating sand in the evening and shes only eaten her pothos leaves once. i havent seen any new bite marks since her first day with it. i only really dust the crickets when i give her the supplements since she eats the most of those. could silkies be dusted also?

i may be underfeeding her a bit but i dont want to overfeed her and get eggs. shes only about 6 inches long vent to snout and those big silkworms seem to fill her belly up.
 
Definately not underfeeding. I would skip the treats you mention.
Ensure the UV lighting is not more than 6 months old. Spells outside do wonders.
Dont dust everything, just ensure she gets good lighting/natural light so she can metabolise the calcium.
At this time its very important.
:)
 
ok, thats good. i dont want her hungry. :) i havent been giving her many treats lately, mostly because the silkworms are so huge. i just recently purchased the reptisun not too long ago but ill make sure i replace it in 6 months. its starting to get in the 50s in jersey so its probably too cold to take her out. plus shes still very timid of me and will probably run away outside! :p
 
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