Spirochete bacteria/flagellated protozoa in fecal

[Lathis]

So Ferdinand is still fighting an infection.

His appetite is back and the irritation in his esophagus has retreated, but his color is still dark and he is a bit lethargic. Just "off" all around. We had a follow up fecal check done this morning with still a high count of flagellated protozoa, and spirochete bacteria was also found in the stool. Previously, he was treated with baytril (daily for 10 days) and flagyl (every other day, total 5 doses). I did clean everything, but I'm ready to do a full cage toss now to try to prevent reinfection.

The vet is back tomorrow and will prescribe an additional round of medicine. I did some searching here on the forum but didn't find a single posting about spirochetes specifically.

Any advice from anyone with experience on this? Any recommendations I can discuss with the vet regarding treatment?

Poor little Ferds. I just feel terrible for him.

 

[Lathis]

Self-serving bump to catch the "after work" crowd.

 

[JoeVet]

In mammal species spirochetes are routinely seen in animals with diarrhea and they are considered nonpathogenic. Rarely there are spirochetes seen in reptile lesions. They probably should be treated with doxicycline. The flagellates are associated with enteritis and should be treated with flagyl.

A more experienced chameleon vet will hopefully chime in.

 

[Lathis]

Thanks, Joe! I appreciate the input. Today was day 1 of the new medicine... so once again, Ferds is pissed at me.

Flagyl daily for 5 days
Panacur on day 1 and again on day 7

I am in the process of stripping down everything for a full cage refresh, including reworking of the drainage base. It's time for all new vines and branches anyway, so I don't mind. I'm sad to lose the pothos, though. It has vines that are 20+ feet long. Maybe after a good scrub, I can keep it for a free range. I'll have to think about that. Ferdinand will be spending the night in the bathtub for a few days. He will not be pleased.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Thanks, Joe! I appreciate the input. Today was day 1 of the new medicine... so once again, Ferds is pissed at me.

Flagyl daily for 5 days
Panacur on day 1 and again on day 7

I am in the process of stripping down everything for a full cage refresh, including reworking of the drainage base. It's time for all new vines and branches anyway, so I don't mind. I'm sad to lose the pothos, though. It has vines that are 20+ feet long. Maybe after a good scrub, I can keep it for a free range. I'll have to think about that. Ferdinand will be spending the night in the bathtub for a few days. He will not be pleased.

I just went through eliminating giradia and a bunch of other nasties including protozoa and flagellates . It took many treatments. I used Panacur five days in a row for three treaments (total 15 Panacur doses). They were reduced but not eliminated so did it again and finally got rid of everything.

The second time I treated them, I was much more meticulous about the cage cleaning. If I saw a stool or urate, I immediately cleaned the spot with a disinfectant (chlorine bleach solution). They are in my office, so I can check cages many times a day and pick up as soon as there is a stool. I think my better hygiene made a difference.

My (wild caughts) also had some large bacteria the vet had never seen and we didn't treat for it--she thinks it is part of the natural flora of a Cameroon chameleon's gut.

Hope that helps.

 

[Lathis]

Ferdinand is about half through his second round of medicines. He has almost no appetite, poor little guy. Over this whole ordeal, Ferds is down to 52g from 65g when he was healthy.

I'm hopeful he will be able to recover soon. I've been so very worried about my Ferds.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Ferdinand is about half through his second round of medicines. He has almost no appetite, poor little guy. Over this whole ordeal, Ferds is down to 52g from 65g when he was healthy.

I'm hopeful he will be able to recover soon. I've been so very worried about my Ferds.

When I was treating my group of parasite-ridden wild caughts, I would add water to the medication to make sure they got a bit extra fluids. When I was finished, I would also stuff a small silkworm in their mouths, hoping it give them a bit of extra food that is a good hydrating food and also keep the meds in their mouth so they would swallow it.

Meds are hard on them--kidneys or liver, maybe both--plus they suppress the appetite.

Ferd has lost a heck of a lot of weight--20% of his body weight. That's a serious weight loss. I would talk to your vet about supplementing with something--I can't remember the name, maybe Carnivore Care? Sometimes just getting nutrition in the gut helps them get their appetite back.

 

[jannb]

When I was treating my group of parasite-ridden wild caughts, I would add water to the medication to make sure they got a bit extra fluids. When I was finished, I would also stuff a small silkworm in their mouths, hoping it give them a bit of extra food that is a good hydrating food and also keep the meds in their mouth so they would swallow it.

Meds are hard on them--kidneys or liver, maybe both--plus they suppress the appetite.

Ferd has lost a heck of a lot of weight--20% of his body weight. That's a serious weight loss. I would talk to your vet about supplementing with something--I can't remember the name, maybe Carnivore Care? Sometimes just getting nutrition in the gut helps them get their appetite back.

Excellent advise. You can get Repta Boost at Petco or PetSmart.
I'll be keeping little Ferd in my prayers.

 

[Lathis]

Thanks, Jannb and JJP. He's just been slowly dropping one gram at a time to the point where he is actually starting to look gaunt Ferdinand is drinking well - at least keeping him hydrated isn't a problem, but I started to worry back at 10% weight loss. He's always been such a picky eater, too, nothing is tempting him.

He has one more day of Flagyl, then the second dose of Panacur. I spent a big part of today breaking down his cage, boiling, scrubbing, and cleaning. I repotted the pothos and am going to give it a cleaning regimen with a quat-based product and let it sit out for awhile. Numerous sources online recommend quats for cleaning after giardia, so I am following those recommendations.

Getting some Reptaboost is a great idea. I will do that tomorrow as soon as the pet store opens.

 

[Lathis]

Ferds has eaten two days in a row

A big superworm for breakfast yesterday and just a few isopods this morning. With Reptaboost for some extra calories and his medicine being done, I'm hoping his appetite will continue to increase, and he will start to gain weight again. He was a bit of a fatty before being ill, so he's got quite a bit to regain.

Not being in his cage has thrown the routine off a bit, but he needs a clean bill of heath before everything goes back to normal.

 

[jannb]

Ferds has eaten two days in a row

A big superworm for breakfast yesterday and just a few isopods this morning. With Reptaboost for some extra calories and his medicine being done, I'm hoping his appetite will continue to increase, and he will start to gain weight again. He was a bit of a fatty before being ill, so he's got quite a bit to regain.

Not being in his cage has thrown the routine off a bit, but he needs a clean bill of heath before everything goes back to normal.

That's good news! I hope Ferd will continue to improve and be his fatty little self again.