silkworms or hornworms?

[joemacchirella]

i plan on buying a different feeder to add more variety to my chameleons diet i just am wondering which feeder i should get i hear there is a alot of work to do with silkworms like buying special leaves and such but the same goes with hornworms buying a special chow and plant for them to reproduce on after they turn into moths i was just wondering which i should purchase and from what website since their are no local stores in las vegas that sells them that i know of also im open to other suggestions as well

 

[mclovin]

I just started working with both to try to get colonies started. So far, I've had silkworms cocoon, hatch and lay eggs (out of a dozen cocoons, 5 hatched and this was my second attempt). Waiting on the eggs to hatch. I got some mulberry leaves with my silkworm shipment but they did't last long. The chow is relatively inexpensive but mine won't eat it. I tried dandelion greens on them and they wouldn't eat them either. I've lost a lot of silkworms so far but I'm determined to make this work.

I have hornworms that have pupated and more that are approaching that stage. I found a hornworm chow recipe online that isn't expensive and the worms love it. They'll also eat dandelion greens. So far, and I'm no expert, the hornworms are easier. There's a bit more to set up but I got an umbrella plant at the grocery store for $6, a DIY cage and I already had a couple of bins laying around and some organic soil. I'll get the tomato plant and hummingbird feeder this weekend. They seem hardier to me, not as delicate and my chams actually prefer them. When I put a hornworm in they go right to it whereas when I put a silkworm in they think about it. I also have bearded dragons and a gecko and they all prefer the horns too. Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[joemacchirella]

yea i was leaning more towards the hornworms anyways if its possible can you send me the link to the chow recipe and what are good plants for them i know tomato plants but thats about it

 

[carol5208]

yea i was leaning more towards the hornworms anyways if its possible can you send me the link to the chow recipe and what are good plants for them i know tomato plants but thats about it

it was always thought that the hornworms we feed to our chams could not eat tomato plant as they are toxic, but there was just a post on here about someone feeding them the plants and the worms to the chams without issue. I am still on the fence and use the chow they come with. Horns grow at an alarming rate unless you starve them every couple of days. You have to have an adult chameleon to eat the large worms and sometimes they even get too big for them. If you have a baby or juvi just beware that in a matter of a week or less they could be over 2 inches long and very thick in diameter if they are exposed to a constant food source like in the pods they come in. My silks thrive on the chow. I have had problems with feeding mulberry leaves. I don't know why as I got the leaves from a neighbors yard who does not use pesticides and they have wiped out my silk population twice. I just buy the chow and feed that.

 

[joemacchirella]

thanks for the advice i have about a 4 to 5 month old nosy be but he eats large crickets with no problem and everyother week some waxworms problem is i need alot more diveristy in his diet but im scared to feed him house flys and the only bug i can find out here in vegas is cicadas which come once a year for the summer months but are way to big i was thinking dubias but the people i live with arent really on board with that idea yet so hornworms is probally what ile go with feed him some small ones and breed some

 

[mclovin]

yea i was leaning more towards the hornworms anyways if its possible can you send me the link to the chow recipe and what are good plants for them i know tomato plants but thats about it

A Homemade Recipe for Manduca Diet from UW-Madison

We have developed a diet composed of ingredients that are readily available in a large supermarket. Diet preparation requires only a kitchen blender and a microwave oven. The finished diet, having the consistency of tofu, can be easily sliced into any shape or size and the quality of the diet can be modified by adding or subtracting various chemical components.

1 cup (100 g) of non-toasted wheat germ (Bobs Red Mill, Milwaukie, OR)
1/3 cup (25 g) of nonfat dry milk (Sanalac, Fullerton, CA)
4 tablespoons of agar (generic)
1 teaspoon pure raw linseed oil (nonboiled, Sunnyside Corp., Wheeling IL)
1/2 tablespoon nutritional flake yeast (generic)
1 vitamin C tablet (1000 mg) (generic)
2 vitamin B tablets (generic)
2 multivitamin tablets (generic)
1 tablespoon of table sugar (generic)
2 1/2 cups water

1. Place vitamin tablets in blender and reduce to a powder. To this powder, add the wheat germ, powdered milk, and sugar and blend until the dry components are well-mixed.
2. Remove the dry mix from the blender and add 2.5 cups of boiling water. While mixing at low speed, add the agar. Be careful to replace the lid on the blender before turning it on. Blend for one minute and then add the dry mix and continue to mix.
3. Add the linseed oil and increase blender speed. You may need to manually blend the diet while the blender is running. The diet gets rather viscous at this point.
4. After blending for about 5 minutes, add the nutritional yeast flakes and continue blending for another minute. Components in the yeast are heat labile, thus, yeast is added as late as possible.
5. Once the diet is thoroughly mixed, pour it into a plastic tray that has a sealable airtight lid. The diet will solidify and remain usable for about 7 to 10 days if kept refrigerated.

I have a cricket a dubia roach colony going. I keep wax worms, butter worms and mealworms in the fridge although wax worms are super easy to raise so I'll be starting that soon. I also have Phoenix worms, super worms and of course I'm working on horns and silks. The thing is the wax, butter and meals stay a long time in the fridge and the super worms last a while on their own too with a little food/hydration so my guys get a ton of variety in their diet. Just in case you were wondering about some of the other feeders and want to include some in the same shipping charge.

 

[joemacchirella]

yea i got waxworms and cricket colonys i just need a lil bigger tubs for the crickets i have a medium sized tub and two small tubs going

 

[mclovin]

yea i got waxworms and cricket colonys i just need a lil bigger tubs for the crickets i have a medium sized tub and two small tubs going

I found a great cricket blog on organizing and cleaning the colony. I'll find the link and post it tomorrow.

 

[joemacchirella]

thanks you been a big help which website has the cheapest and best quality hornworms i need some small to medium sized ones so i can feed some off and then raise some

 

[mclovin]

The ones that have pupated already came from a guy in VA who just told me he's got thousands of smalls that just hatched. His email is [email protected]. I also got dubias from him and he's great about answering questions and giving advice. I bought the ones coming up and that I'm feeding off through Josh's Frogs (sponsor on here) and they're growing crazy fast (I have them in a hot room in the house so they will grow fast). I got them on a Wednesday and I believe they were around an inch and by Saturday I was moving them to bins because a bunch of the worms were close to three inches and too big for the cup. Really it depends on the sizes you need and who has them.

 

[joemacchirella]

ok thanks u have helped me alot

 

[mclovin]

http://www.frogforum.net/care-artic...ckets-care-breeding-common-house-cricket.html

That's the link to the cricket organization and cleaning blog that I found really helpful. Check the forums here too for silkworms 101 and 102 as those are also very informative and google the Manduca Project to learn more about hornworms in general.

 

[joemacchirella]

so does anyone have a good place to buy hornworms from that are cheap

 

[shamelessw]

Silkworm and mullberry not feeding might be due to having Morus nigra leaves, I remember sometime in college that Silkworm feed almost solely on Morus alba leaves

 

[Manex]

I just started working with both to try to get colonies started. So far, I've had silkworms cocoon, hatch and lay eggs (out of a dozen cocoons, 5 hatched and this was my second attempt). Waiting on the eggs to hatch. I got some mulberry leaves with my silkworm shipment but they did't last long. The chow is relatively inexpensive but mine won't eat it. I tried dandelion greens on them and they wouldn't eat them either. I've lost a lot of silkworms so far but I'm determined to make this work..

was just reading this thread and saw your post. I use silk worms as my starter worms but you will generally have problems if they are shipped with mulberry leaves. Usually once they have real leaves in their diet, they will refuse all chow in my experience. If u buy them and want to feed them chow, just buy hatchling cups that have the pre made chow in them. Or just start off with chow
And no leaves if your hatching eggs. I have had this problem whenever I had silks shipped with mulberry leaves as I only have the chow available and no access to fresh leaves for the most part. Hope this may help

 

[spawn]

Is it okay to keep hornworms in the fridge? Mine are in my reptile room which is 84 degrees and I don't want them growing fast. They came in a pod with the chow already in there.

What about house flies?

 

[AlecWade]

Is it okay to keep hornworms in the fridge? Mine are in my reptile room which is 84 degrees and I don't want them growing fast. They came in a pod with the chow already in there.

What about house flies?

I've heard that it is in fact okay to put hornworms into the fridge. Although I've never put my hornworms in the fridge I'm pretty sure most people cycle the worms 2 days in 1 day out or every other day once the worms are a good size. Not sure about houseflies though I'm guessing they wouldn't survive refrigeration but I'm sure someone on here has tried it! Are you trying to keep the flies from growing too fast or just slow them down?

 

[spawn]

Thanks for the response.

I'm keeping the house flies in there because frankly I got 500 spikes from smallpetfeeders, and maybe 40-50 are adults, and I'm only feeding them out to 5 waxy monkey frog babies and 2 baby veileds, so I need those to stay alive and grow out slowly.

 

[laurie]

Is it okay to keep hornworms in the fridge? Mine are in my reptile room which is 84 degrees and I don't want them growing fast. They came in a pod with the chow already in there.

What about house flies?

On the hornworms, take them in and out of the refrg daily. you can't get them really cold, but other wise the will grow like crazy.

I keep flys in the frog for a bit longer.