Sick Baby Veiled

kj9

New Member
Chameleon Info:

Chameleon - Veiled, female, approximately 1-2 months. One week.

Handling – We’ve held her three times since we got her.

Feeding – We are feeding her small crickets. We saw her hunt and eat one a couple of days ago. Yesterday we were able to get her to eat 4 crickets and this morning I was able to get her to eat 4 ½. We have not been gut-loading our feeders, but would appreciate any and all advice on the topic.

Supplements – We have not dusted our feeders yet, but as with gut-loading, we would greatly appreciate any and all advice on the best way to do so.

Watering – We have a mister that runs all day long and we mist her with a spray bottle as well. Multiple times per day; until all of the leaves in her cage are wet. Yes, we’ve seen her drink water both off of the leaves in her cage, as well as off of the cage itself.

Fecal Description – Light brown with a white-ish top. She has never been tested for parasites.

History – We really don’t have much history as we have only had her one week. We are first time chameleon owners, and really had no clue what we were getting ourselves into. Now that we have her though, we are determined to be the best possible pet parents that we can be. This is all one big learning process for us, and we are learning new things about keeping a chameleon every day. The lady in the pet store that sold her to us said that we should keep her in a glass aquarium with a screen top and that we didn’t need any substrate in the bottom. This woman told us that we should be feeding her mealworms, as she had never seen her hunt crickets. Us being incredibly unprepared and naïve took her word for it and only bought mealworms as feeders. That night I was doing some reading online, and realized that we should definitely NOT be keeping her in a glass aquarium and should NOT be trying to feed her only mealworms. The next day we went out to a different pet store and bought the screen cage that she is currently in. While at this store the woman working there told us that we SHOULD put substrate in the bottom. We made the mistake of listening to a pet store employee again and bought ZooMed eco earth substrate. Also, when we told this woman about the mealworms, she said that we should try feeding our cham flightless fruit flies. We got a bottle of those to try out (our cham was not interested at all). After doing more research we took all of the substrate out of the bottom of her cage and replaced it with two layers of paper towels. Yesterday we bought Zilla Jump-Start (caloric supplement and appetite stimulant). We were able to get some of that in her through the syringe. She opened her eyes once after we fed her Jump-Start. She started getting a lot more active and my boyfriend came up with the idea of coating her crickets with the stuff and then feeding them to her that way. We were able to get her to eat both yesterday and today by doing that.

Cage Info:

Cage Type – Screen cage. 18”x18”x36”.

Lighting – We have a Zilla day blue light bulb and a ZooMed Reptisun 5.0 UVB lamp. Both domes sit directly on the screen on the top of her cage. We have a deep dome for the UVB bulb. I turn on both of the lights around 8:30am and turn them both off around 9:00pm. We just got the UVB light yesterday, after doing more reading on what keeping a chameleon healthy and happy requires.

Temperature – The top of her cage nearest the basking lamp is around 90 degrees according to our thermometer. We recently moved it to about 2/3 of the way down her cage and it reads that the temperature there is about 80 degrees. The lowest overnight temp is about 75 – 80 degrees, as it does not get any cooler than that in our house. We measure these temps with a thermometer/hygrometer that we bought with a bunch of starter stuff. We’re pretty sure it isn’t very accurate and have talked about getting a better one. Any recommendations?

Humidity – The little thermometer/hygrometer that we have reads that her cage sits between 40 – 50% humidity. We have a mister that runs all day and we also mist the cage with a spray bottle multiple times daily. We think that readings are not accurate, because if you walk into the room where her cage is located it feels like the whole room is damp.

Plants – No.

Placement – Her cage is located in my boyfriend's office at our house. The door stays closed all the time and the only time people are in there is if my boyfriend or I have work to do that we can’t do out in the kitchen (it gets so hot in the office). There are no fans, no vents, and almost no traffic in our office. The top of her cage is about 4 feet off of the floor.

Location – Northeast Ohio.

Current Problem – Her eyes are closed and she is not eating. We have only seen her hunt and eat a cricket one time (a couple days ago). We were able to feed her Zilla Jump-Start through a syringe and a few crickets by hand when they were coated in the goo. Her grip seems to be very weak and we have seen her fall a couple of times. I have been doing extensive reading on what it takes to be able to keep a cham and now know just how grossly unprepared we really were. We have become increasingly worried about her health over the past week and I decided to post on here to see if anyone has any recommendations about what to do for our cham. Thank you, LM.

Photos:
1. Full view of her cage.
2. Inside her cage
3. Sitting on the side of the dish we have in there. We now leave it empty after learning that they don't need water dishes. You can see that her eyes are still closed.
4. Walking over to climb up the screen.
5. Climbing the screen to go sit right under her mister.
 

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Juancito

Member
The reason why probably has her eyes closed is because of the light mayhem being to bright. Turn them off and see how she acts then, also 90 is too high for her since she is so young. It should be around 80 for now. If you click on the resource tab there is a great caresheet for veileds. I'm sure somebody with more exper8ence will chime in. Hope she gets better!
 

kj9

New Member
I've turned off the heat lamp. What Should I do from there? Replace the bulb with one that doesn't get as hot? Only have the UVB light on?
 

Juancito

Member
Should I turn off both of her lights or just the heat lamp?

I'd turn them both off to see if that's the problem. Shell be okay without them for a couple days. Have you clicked on the resource tab yet? If not I'd do that.
 

Juancito

Member
I've turned off the heat lamp. What Should I do from there? Replace the bulb with one that doesn't get as hot? Only have the UVB light on?

Yeah start with a 40 watt bulb, see how hot it is and see what works best from there,
 

kj9

New Member
Yes, I have checked out the resource tab. Which do you think would be better? Trying out the 40 watt bulb or leaving both of her lights off? Or should I leave her lights off for a couple days & then try with the 40 watt bulb when I turn them back on?
 

carol5208

Chameleon Enthusiast
No, do not turn off the uvb bulb. They do not give off any heat and the Reptisun 5.0 is what most use even for new babies. It should not be too strong. Go ahead and try cutting the basking temp back by using the lower wattage and see how that goes. Also, if she is closing her eyes while sitting on the bottom where there is hardly any light, then I would mabye say it is not a lighting problem.
 

kj9

New Member
I will get a lower watt bulb today. Thank you all so much for your advice. I am so worried about her and want her to be a healthy and happy cham.
 

kj9

New Member
I am sorry that my pictures upset you. I am doing everything I can to help her and really hope things get better as well.
 

lancaster0861

New Member
Your doing just fine! Don't be to hard on yourself, im sure most of us here have gotten into something a little to early due to excitement one time or another. People have done a lot worse also. The good thing is that you are showing true interest in correcting your mistakes and doing all the things needed to house a happy chameleon. A lot of folks do what you did and instead of trying to fix the problem just get rid of the animal or even worse yet, just leave it in the current situation to rot away. Im not for sure what is going on with your guy, but their are a lot of good people on here that can help. I don't know if i read your post wrong or not, but it looked like you said you leave the mister on all day? If thats the case, the environment may be to humid for him in there. I have read that environments that are to humid tend to allow bacteria to flourish and could possibly lead to eye problems or even respiratory issues. Im in not way for sure if this is the case, but it may be possible. I have had pretty good luck with misting my cage about three times a day for a few minutes a day, along with running a dripper for the better part of the day (for drinking). This allows the cage to dry out in between misting and should make for a healthier environment. Again, this may not be the problem and i may have read your husbandry wrong and you may be spraying correctly, but if not that may help a little. Also, if you haven't already done so, your gonna want to get a good veterinarian lined out for him in the future anyways. This would work out perfect as you can go get this issue worked out and get a fecal check for parasites while there. This fecal check just ensures that your chameleon is free of parasites and healthy. Well good luck and hope all works out with your guy.
 

kj9

New Member
First of all, thank you so much for your post!
You did read correctly - I have been leaving the mister on all day. Should I turn it on for only short periods of time or do you think it would be better to get rid of it completely and only mist the cage with the spray bottle? If I do get rid of it should I get a dripper instead? I have been looking into finding a vet, but we live in a very, very rural area so it looks like there isn't going to be anyone close.
 

carol5208

Chameleon Enthusiast
makes me angry to see those pictures.
i really hope things turn up.
That is awfully rude of you. You have a very nice person here trying to do everything possible to find out what is wrong. Their set up looks far better than alot I have seen on here. If anything, you can state that you feel bad that her chameleon is not doing well. If they were totally neglecting their chameleon, I could see the need for anger, but that is not the case here.
 

carol5208

Chameleon Enthusiast
Kj9, I just noticed the previous post about the mister. I am assuming you did not mean you were running it 24/7as I am sure your house would be flooded by now! You mean you were running it in intervals around the clock? If so, then yes, you only want to run it during the day maybe 3 or 4 times for about 3 minutes and let the cage dry out in between. No need to mist at night when your little one is sleeping. Drippers are good and can run throughout the day. No running at night either. Do you mean a fogger and not a mister? I cannot see it running all day, it would flood everything!
 

kj9

New Member
I have been running it when I have her lights on - so about 12 hours at a time. I've turned it off now though, and will start running it only in short intervals.

I can't explain how grateful I am to all of you for your help. Y'all are awesome.
 

whysoez420

New Member
That is awfully rude of you. You have a very nice person here trying to do everything possible to find out what is wrong. Their set up looks far better than alot I have seen on here. If anything, you can state that you feel bad that her chameleon is not doing well. If they were totally neglecting their chameleon, I could see the need for anger, but that is not the case here.

both of you took it wrong. the anger comes from seeing any animal looking like that. i did not assume the owner neglected to take care of the cham. if i did i would have stated that. much like i did in an earlier post. i messaged kj to clear things up.
 

carol5208

Chameleon Enthusiast
both of you took it wrong. the anger comes from seeing any animal looking like that. i did not assume the owner neglected to take care of the cham. if i did i would have stated that. much like i did in an earlier post. i messaged kj to clear things up.

ok I just felt bad for the people as after that post they stated they were trying to do everything they could. Yes, I get angry to at times like when I see a chameleon with its limbs broken because someone did not provide it uvb or calcium. I guess I just took it the wrong way as these people seem very nice and willing to do whatever it takes to help their chameleon. So it's all good!
 

lancaster0861

New Member
Oh ok well I unfortunately am not lucky enough to have a automatic mister myself, but plenty of people on here do have them and love them. I would love to have one but have not been able to get the money for one yet. Being full time student in all. I think people with panthers really benefit from them because panther seem to need a lot more humidity than veileds and this is really helpful in keeping the humidity up when you don't have the chance to do it by hand. I have a veiled like you and have been able to maintain a healthy environment for him with only hand spraying his cage and leaving the dripper for him. I just spray him for about 2-3 minutes at a time or until i see him stop drinking each time. I do this 2-3 times a day. Most people try to get their humidity up to about 60-80%, some people misunderstand this and think they need to keep a constant 80% in the cage all day. This is not the case, but rather mist the cage and get the humidity up to 80% and then over time the cage will dry out and the humidity will lower to around 30-40% depending on outside measurements. After a few hours and a pretty much dry cage go ahead and give it another good misting, then repeat. I usually set up my dripper and have that dripper for most of the day except for a few hours before he goes to bed. This allows the cage to dry out before the lights go out. Otherwise your guy will be sleeping in a cold damp environment. The dripper just provides water while the leaves are not wet or in case he prefers the dripping water to still drops on the leaves. Mine likes both sources. This is what i do and you may find it works for you. If not there are a lot of good methods on here offered by some very experienced people you can find. You can ask some members who own a mister, but i believe they set them up to go off every 2-3 hours for 2-3 min at each session. IDK for sure but others can tell you for sure who own a mister. Your doing good and im happy to help if i can! Oh yea if possible i would try and get some more horizontal pathways and some more coverage in the middle for your little one. It will go a long way in making him feel more comfortable and secure in his cage. They like to be able to get up as high as possible also in their cage.
 
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