Senegal Subspecies?

[DanSB]

I have seen many references that there are two subspecies of Senegal chameleon but can find nothing other than one has tarsal spurs on the males and the other doesn't.

Does anyone here know anything about this or have any further details?

Possibly different natural distributions? Different color patterns?

This is driving me crazy because every search simply leads to the same information.

 

[Chris Anderson]

There are no recognized subspecies of Chamaeleo senegalensis.

Chris

 

[DanSB]

There are no recognized subspecies of Chamaeleo senegalensis.

Chris

Well then that is why I can find o good information regarding this!

Is there anything to the information regarding some males having tarsal spurs and some not?

My thought is that there are just different regional morphs, which I also can't find any information on.

 

[Trace]

Within the dilepis complex (Flapneck Chameleons) some males have spurs and some don't. Could this be what you are thinking of?

Here is an article that explains some of the differences: http://chameleonnews.com/06SepDeckers.html

 

[Ferdy Timmerman]

Chamaeleo laevigatus used to be viewed as a subspecies of Ch. senegalensis. Maybe that's what you read about?

 

[DanSB]

I have been told and read that Senegal Chameleon males may or may not have tarsal spurs.

If they all do or all don't then that answers my question. I am only curious because when I see pictures of Ch. Senegalensis they seem to have huge variation. Granted there are a lot of pictures that are clearly Gracefuls or flapnecks mislabeled there still seems to be some sort of morphological separation.

So maybe a better and rephrased question: Are there different recognized morphs or locales of Ch. Senegalensis?

I ask mainly because I really want to try my hand at breeding and want to know the best way to find suitable mates. (Granted I have a ways to go, I can't even sex the one I have!)

I did read about the Ch. laevigatus having been thought to be a subspecies, but I can swear there was some (mis)information claiming there is a subspecies that has tarsal spurs and one that does not. I need to find the article(s) which are in the history of my other computer. I'll link them when I find them.

 

[Chris Anderson]

Neither Ch. senegalensis nor Ch. laevigatus have tarsal spurs.

Chris

 

[Trace]

So a quick Google search brings this up: (hopefully the link works!) http://books.google.ca/books?id=pf8...epage&q=senegal chameleon tarsal spur&f=false

That information is wrong but I'm surprised that it wasn't corrected in the 2005 rewrite.

 

[DanSB]

Thank you Chris and Trace!

Trace,

This isn't the exact source I saw but my guess is multiple places were utilizing the same information as the verbiage is very similar.

Can either of you recommend a good and accurate chameleon book? I really want to learn a lot more about chameleons in general but am finding a ton of inaccurate information!

I found a PowerPoint that looked like it was made for customs folks that had a Senegal labelled as a Bradypodion species! ha haa

 

[Trace]

I was curious as to where you had found that Senegal Chameleon/tarsal spur anecdote and came across that link. Up until last night I had never heard of it. The Bartlett’s are pioneers of herpetoculture I’m surprised that it was not corrected in the newer versions of that book.

I’ve been keeping reptiles a loooong time so I’ve got lots of different books and publications. I mostly learned through the old AdCham site (sadly long gone now), talking with Chris (zzzzzz) and by reading country or region specific reptile field guides. The books I’ve referred to most over the years are:

Chameleons: Natures Hidden Jewels by Petr Necas. There are two editions of this book with the second one being the better of the two. Unfortunately it’s difficult to find the second version but the original version is very good if you can get that. Both may be out of print now?

Chameleons of Africa by Colin Tilbury. This one is new and encompasses every species from mainland Africa. It’s expensive but worth it.

Good luck! I admire your thirst for more than just the basics.

 

[DanSB]

I will definitely check both of those books out thank you.

It looks like Senegals are one of the most imported Chameleon species and there is sadly very little information about them and a ton of misinformation floating around.

I hadn't even thought about field guides. I used to do a lot of birding and local natural history and the detailed species identification, ranges, and natural history in most bird / field guides is exactly what I am looking for in chameleons.

I appreciate all your help!

 

[DanSB]

Okay after Pipin's latest shed I definitely see what looks like tarsal spurs. He definitely does not have occipital lobes and looks exactly like a senegal in all other regards.

I will post pictures as soon as I find where my wife put the camera.

A couple questions... Is there anything that would look similar to a tarsal spur that is not, they are small but definitely a pronounced spur, and is there another similar looking species he could be if they are indeed?