San Diego Expo Today

[philanddeb818]

Well, we went, had fun looking and bought all kinds of goodies. I was totally taken by the gheckos in two of the booths...amazing colors, and the people were friendly and informative.

As for the Chams, quite honestly...I saw many Chams that were too young to be sold and many that were in cages with others that were adult size, dark with stress. I took my camera but didn't see anything I really wanted to shoot and put up on our forum. Mostly due to stress.

The process of showing Chameleons for sale is two fold I'm sure. The seller must not have enough room to show each Cham individually.

It was very hard to see all the animals in such small containers such as the Tegu. We saw a beautiful blue Tegu that was for sale for 1K. She or he was in a presentation box that made her body shape into an "S" because she had no room.

I thought about what these animals must experience with all of us humans looking and pointing at them.

I wanted to buy everything I saw just to get them into a larger space.

I heard one seller at a very popular Cham site booth that we all know, tell a perspective buyer, "Yes, she can breed at 5 or 6 months old." It was then that we left. It was so sad.

Sorry to vent.

 

[DJnSoCal]

Sounds similar to an experience I had...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/vaccinations-26906/


I agree with you about the size of some of the chameleons... T I N Y.


People are out to make money... it is a business.

 

[SoCaliSon]

I had a great time seeing a lot of the forum peeps again... And meeting a few for the first time(Chris and Lisa!)

Hung out around Tiki Tiki most the time with Chad and Darci... who get cooler every time I see them. BSing with Ryan and Kevin just talking Chams. I really love the chances I get to hang out with this crowd of people... Next time I will not miss the beers. I scouted some Azureus for Kent while he was hard at work behing the FL Chams booth... and those little things are awesome. Anyway... It was great to see you all!

I am now at home with my two new additions... My beautiful Male Rudis from Mike at FL Chams... This is my first Rudis and this little guy is so stinking cool. He is quite the little pint sized stud. I was hoping to find a nice GF for him at the show... but the only ones available when I was there today were young and poorly. So if anyone has a nice Rudis female or two or knows of any available please let e know. CB is always preferable.

And I also stopped by the Hensley home on the way back and picked up one of his beautiful baby Quads. Josh and his Wife(I am sorry I am sooo bad with names) are great people, with beautiful home, and some Incredible Quads! The wonderful pics they post do no Justice to how amazing these guys are in person. They really seem to have raising these guys down to a "T"... Great assets to the community. The little baby boy I got from them is bitchin'. The epitome of a perfectly healthy 4mo old Quad! He is flawless!

As you all know there will soon be threads for my new little guys!

What a day!!! I am hitting the Sack!

~Joe

 

[dondeb562]

you should check with Cain and see if he has either of his girls left...

 

[Kent67]

I scouted some Azureus for Kent while he was hard at work behing the FL Chams booth... and those little things are awesome.

Thank you! I didn't even realize InFrogneato was there and they have really nice frogs. I bought one of those females for $90 and I even saw some courtship with my male last night. How cool! You might want to try Steve Sims for a cb female T. sternfeldi, too.

 

[philanddeb818]

Sounds similar to an experience I had...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/vaccinations-26906/


I agree with you about the size of some of the chameleons... T I N Y.


People are out to make money... it is a business.

To think I was tenative to write what I really thought after looking at the replies makes me laugh. But thank you for actually READING WHAT I WROTE JnSoCal. "Vaccinations" totally cracked me up and I completely agree with you! GREEDY Beggers! I look at SOME of our $pon$ors in a new light now...lol.

 

[Redeye]

Ok, so the guys at work told me that one of the "Chameleon guys" got choked out by security for acting a fool
WHO WAS IT?!

lol

 

[philanddeb818]

Ok, so the guys at work told me that one of the "Chameleon guys" got choked out by security for acting a fool
WHO WAS IT?!

lol

No idea! Love to know though! lol

 

[dodolah]

I heard one seller at a very popular Cham site booth that we all know, tell a perspective buyer, "Yes, she can breed at 5 or 6 months old." It was then that we left. It was so sad.

Sorry to vent.

I agree with most of your points. However, to be perfectly honest, imho, chameleon indeed can breed at 5 to 6 months old.

age does not really matter as much as the physical (i.e: size) readiness of the chameleon itself. If the female is ready, the female is ready regardless of the age.
I firmly believe with a proper husbandry, chameleon can indeed handle pregnancy at that age.

If things get wrong, mostly will stem from that problem. Where improper husbandry causes them to have a stunted growth.
The 1 year old age mark is mostly for precaution -which i agree- and still a good suggestion for people (especially who are new to chameleons) not to jump and start breeding like crazy disregarding the physical factors.
But, to say that 1 year old and older as the only age where they can survive pregnancy can be a misleading statement.
Some might disagree with my points.

 

[DJnSoCal]

I agree with most of your points. However, to be perfectly honest, imho, chameleon indeed can breed at 5 to 6 months old.

age does not really matter as much as the physical readiness of the chameleon itself. If the female is ready, the female is ready regardless of the age. The 1 year old age mark is mostly for precaution -which i agree- and a good suggestion for people (especially who are new to chameleons) not to jump and start breeding like crazy.. Some might disagree with my points.

My impression from Philanddeb818's post was that the seller was telling the prospective buyer what they wanted to hear in order to sell a chameleon, i.e.- "sure she can breed at 5 to 6 months..."

I know what you are saying dodolah and I would agree with you. Every chameleon is different and reaches maturity at different times.

What is best then, IMO, is to say what should be expected. I would say, "Every chameleon is different, but normally they are fertile and ready for a mate at around 6 to 12 months." I think what causes eyebrows to raise is when someone makes a quantitative response to a qualitative question.

I find it interesting Philanddeb818 and I both came away from the show with the same general impressions (correct me if I'm wrong, please)... at least as I see it: Let's sell what we can. Actually, I don't think is necessarily wrong to market and sell a product. Everyone needs to make money somehow, but ethically and responsibly.

Okay, cut me off... too much rum tonight!

 

[philanddeb818]

I agree with most of your points. However, to be perfectly honest, imho, chameleon indeed can breed at 5 to 6 months old.

age does not really matter as much as the physical (i.e: size) readiness of the chameleon itself. If the female is ready, the female is ready regardless of the age.
I firmly believe with a proper husbandry, chameleon can indeed handle pregnancy at that age.

If things get wrong, mostly will stem from that problem. Where improper husbandry causes them to have a stunted growth.
The 1 year old age mark is mostly for precaution -which i agree- and still a good suggestion for people (especially who are new to chameleons) not to jump and start breeding like crazy disregarding the physical factors.
But, to say that 1 year old and older as the only age where they can survive pregnancy can be a misleading statement.
Some might disagree with my points.

Dodolah, I can appreciate what you're saying here. And I thank you for your thoughts.

My impression is, and I could be totally wrong, but I believe a female needs time to truly live and grow without forcing her to reprocreate. I've heard it said that turning a female into a "breeding machine" from youth can take life out of her. Personally, I'd rather do all I can personally to keep her healthy so she can live as long as possible.

My concern was more about the greed of the seller telling a naive buyer whatever he wanted to make the sale.

Thanks again for your post.

 

[dodolah]

I believe a female needs time to truly live and grow without forcing her to reprocreate. I've heard it said that turning a female into a "breeding machine" from youth can take life out of her.

My concern was more about the greed of the seller telling a naive buyer whatever he wanted to make the sale.

Thanks again for your post.

Basically, making a female into breeding machine can take life out of her regardless of age.

the "time" we often equate with 1 year is not set in stone.
And, indeed, they can be physically ready when they are 6 months old.
I think the one year mark is a common misconception but based on a very good intention. I would not hesitate telling people to wait at least until their female turn to a year old before breeding, but for all the reasons other than young female chameleons (younger than a year old) cannot handle breeding.

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

I heard one seller at a very popular Cham site booth that we all know, tell a perspective buyer, "Yes, she can breed at 5 or 6 months old." It was then that we left. It was so sad.

I am curious , What species was being discussed?

Pretty presumptuous that the buyer was naive and the seller was greedy. After you heard that she can breed and 5-6 months you said you walked away.

Can you be sure , it was not explained further?

I share your feelings on the small containers, but it is just temporary in most cases. There will always be sellers that ship show to show in cups. I would not buy from them. but...

Most are kept in pretty decent conditions before and after the show.

 

[philanddeb818]

I am curious , What species was being discussed?

Pretty presumptuous that the buyer was naive and the seller was greedy. After you heard that she can breed and 5-6 months you said you walked away.

Can you be sure , it was not explained further?

I share your feelings on the small containers, but it is just temporary in most cases. There will always be sellers that ship show to show in cups. I would not buy from them. but...

Most are kept in pretty decent conditions before and after the show.

Presumptuous is a bit harsh. If you were truly interested in my thoughts, you might invite a conversation and reserve judgement until you were sure about the situation.

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

and reserve judgement until you were sure about the situation.

My point exactly

I wasn't judging, just trying to be clear on the situation. Sorry of you were offended in any way. That was not my intention.