Rock Solid Gutload food - anyone?

[Jamie]

Chameloman, just my thoughts..... but I wonder if taking a closer look at your supplementation schedule might help. I would be surprised if the cricketfood gutload is the primary cause of the edema you saw in your chams.... It could be that your previous gutload (and supplementation routine) did not quite compare to the nutritional value of the cricketfood gutload, though they may have "appeared" to be fine combined. So, when you switched over to the new gutload without adjusting your supplementation routine, your chameleons starting getting more than they needed, hence the edema.... I have personally seen this happen.........

I am betting that if you would have kept the gutload and you reduced your supplementation instead, you would have seen the edema go away..
IMO, anything the cham receives via natural means (the gutload/natural sunlight) is absorbed much better than anything "synthetic" (supplements/artificial lighting)....

Again, just my thoughts.

Hey Roberto, I had NO issues with edema until I started feeding the advanced formula from cricketfood.com to my crickets and after a couple of weeks I started seeing swollen necks in three of my chameleons!! I then realized the ONLY thing I did differently was use this gutload and coinsidently It was two weeks before I noticed the edema that I started to use this gutload!! I then backed off this gutload and am now noticing that the swelling is going down!! So....I can positively say it was the gutload!!

 

[Brad]

Be VERY careful with this gutload as it has caused edema in a few of my animals and others on this forum have had the same problem!!

Many people use cricketfood's products and have been successfully doing so for years. Posting a claim like that without any further information I believe is irresponsible. From what I have read, there are many problems that can lead to edema. Also, some species are more prone to the condition.


The text below was taken from an article posted on the former chameleon journal website.

Edema:
by Kenneth Lopez, D.V.M.
I have been asked to discuss edema in chams. Disclaimer, I don't have definite answers to give. I do have a few conclusives and a few thoughts. First off, what is edema (oedema for those of you who drive on the wrong side of the road)? Edema is an abnormal accumulation of fluid in the cavities and intercellular spaces of the body. What are typical causes of edema? Hypoproteinemia (osmotic effect), lymphatic blockage, changes in vascular permeability, heart failure, renal disease, iatrogenic overhydration, G. I. disease, neoplasia, drug effects, inhaled toxins, sepsis, inflammation. That's about all aplicable to chams I can come up with off the top of my head. Not too many chams get pulmonary edema from chewing electrical plugs.

Now lets discuss the causes I have diagnosed in the past. Hypoproteinemia: Very common. Most often due to liver disease. There is a decrease of plasma proteins due to decline of production. Increased plasma protein loss, say through the intestine, must be considered. Liver infections (bacterial or viral), parasitic lesions, hepatotoxic drugs, and vascular compromise have been causes postitively identified. Reproductive hormones have been implicated. Lymphatic blockage: Microfilaria are common in WC chams (as per Steve)and do cause lymphatic blockage. I have seen lymphatic blockage in severe burn cases. Heart failure: Rare. Bacterial endocarditis comes to mind in other reptiles. Renal disease: Probably the most common cause in my experience. Causes are many. Often drugs are used which are toxic to the kidneys. Dehydration is a big factor to the demise of the kidneys, especially when coupled with drug administration. Renal gout is very often found and will be discussed later. Now I have to add fungal as well. Inflammation, sepsis: Changes is vascular permeability often lead to edema. Inhaled toxins: I have seen many birds suffer from second hand smoke and incense use. I'm sure chams can suffer as well. I have seen lungs/air sacs of chams owned by heavy smokers with black spots all over. Hypovitaminosis A has been implicated in edema in reptiles. Thats about all I think apply to a majority of the edema cases I've seen.

!!

 

[Brad]

Has anyone heard from those peope at Rock Solid lately?

I have placed an order back October 9th. They cashed the money and that was it. I have sent emails without any response.

Not about the money, just the lack of news... I am glad I have other products to feed my crickets!

Very weird, and definitely not nice.

Roberto.

I had a similar problem. Placed an order, used paypal, and never...ever...heard back from them. That was like 4 months ago. I emailed probably 10 times trying to get in contact and not a single response, ever. The only thing that saved me was using paypal as they never accepted my invoice and the payment ceased.

Strange though. Very very poor business etiquette.

That is odd to not even receive a response. I hope everything is ok with the store owner.

 

[Fate X]

i was thinking maybe they put some kind of feed in the gutload that was tainted with rat poison because lots of dogs n cats got killed because of tainted feed frompeople who used it where the palnts grow n it seeped in the plants ,they said it was powerful stuff.


im still using fluker gutload then i feed greens etc.

im not saying they put it in on purpose ,im saying it could happen on the field.

 

[chameloman72]

Chameloman, just my thoughts..... but I wonder if taking a closer look at your supplementation schedule might help. I would be surprised if the cricketfood gutload is the primary cause of the edema you saw in your chams.... It could be that your previous gutload (and supplementation routine) did not quite compare to the nutritional value of the cricketfood gutload, though they may have "appeared" to be fine combined. So, when you switched over to the new gutload without adjusting your supplementation routine, your chameleons starting getting more than they needed, hence the edema.... I have personally seen this happen.........

I am betting that if you would have kept the gutload and you reduced your supplementation instead, you would have seen the edema go away..
IMO, anything the cham receives via natural means (the gutload/natural sunlight) is absorbed much better than anything "synthetic" (supplements/artificial lighting)....

Again, just my thoughts.

Jamie, thanks for your "thoughts" but the animals in question are actually raised in the Florida sunshine and not given much supplementation!! I count on my gutloads for their nutrition!! So....this being said the only thing I have done differently was introduce this new "advanced cricket formula" from cricketfood.com and like I said when I stopped using it the edema is starting to subside!!

 

[chameloman72]

Many people use cricketfood's products and have been successfully doing so for years. Posting a claim like that without any further information I believe is irresponsible. From what I have read, there are many problems that can lead to edema. Also, some species are more prone to the condition.

Well Brad.....call me irresponsible then, but as I stated in my last reply I have seen it with my own two eyes!! When stopping the "advanced cricket formula" the edema started to subside after just a few days!! I am still seeing it in those three animals but it is noticably going down some already!! I guess it must just be a coincidence then huh?? If so...then why are other members on this forum experiencing the SAME thing and mysteriously they're using the SAME food!!

 

[Mesnik]

Chameloman,

What are you using now for gutloading?

Thanks, and regardless what happened, it is VERY nice to hear that your chams are recovering!!! That is what matters, right?!!

Roberto.


Brad,

I learned that the VMD sold the buisiness to Larson and that was it. No news at all from those guys... I don't like web pages that don't have phones for contact...

 

[chameloman72]

Chameloman,

What are you using now for gutloading?

Thanks, and regardless what happened, it is VERY nice to hear that your chams are recovering!!! That is what matters, right?!!

Roberto.


Brad,

I learned that the VMD sold the buisiness to Larson and that was it. No news at all from those guys... I don't like web pages that don't have phones for contact...

I am using good ol fashion fresh veggies!~! Works great!!

 

[Mesnik]

Do NOT buy from RockSolid.com!!

Here is the resolution to my appeal on the case that I paid and never received the cricket gut load.

His name and business are ruined because of US$12!!! Well, I am sure others have suffered too...

Too bad for the hobby.

HERE IS WHAT PAYPAL HAS TO SAY:

Dear Roberto Mesnik,

After careful review, we have concluded our investigation of the Buyer
Complaint described below.

We have decided in your favor, however, we were unable to recover any funds
from the seller's account. As stated in the PayPal User Agreement, recovery
of funds associated with a Buyer Complaint cannot be guaranteed.

Please know that we will make our best effort to recover the funds in
question if they become available in the seller's account in the future and
will take appropriate action against the seller. Such action may include
issuing a warning, a temporary restriction, or terminating the account.
Keep in mind that PayPal uses a number of factors to determine when to take
action, including member complaints. Due to privacy laws, we cannot discuss
the details of any action taken. We hope you understand our policy and that
it assures you that you are safe using PayPal.


-----------------------------------
Transaction Details
-----------------------------------

Transaction Date: Oct 9, 2007
Transaction Amount: -$12.00 USD
Invoice ID: 889710b6a7a7540356aac9db9734aa1e
Your Transaction ID: 63890197A93801715
Seller's Transaction ID: 8B955908CS5008431
Case Number: PP-358-942-057
Seller's Name: Scott Larsen
Seller's Email: [email protected]



-----------------------------------
What to Do Next
-----------------------------------

This case is now closed. No further action is required by you at this time.


-----------------------------------
Other Details
-----------------------------------

To make sure future transactions proceed smoothly, we suggest you visit the
PayPal site and click the Security Center link located at the bottom of any
page. There you will find tips on how to avoid fraudulent sellers in the
"Fraud Prevention Tips for Buyers" section.

Sincerely,
PayPal
Protection Services Department

 

[Canopy Chameleons]

I thought things like this were supposed to be posted on the BOI, not here?

 

[Mesnik]

I don't know what BOI means.

If I knew to post it somewhere else, I would have.

Thanks for the note.

 

[Canopy Chameleons]

BOI= Board of Inquiry.

 

[Mesnik]

Aha! Got it. Thanks. I didn't know that. Now I do!!!

Take care.

 

[TRI0N]

Regardless of the above mumbo jumbo, THANKS FOR THE TIP and I see no reason why you shouldn't let us know about such bad online purchases.

 

[Mesnik]

That's okay. I also thought that this would be a good place to post since it was on this very location that I heard from this guys and made the purchase.

And the web page is actually:

www.rocksolidherpetoculture.com

but is no longer open. Which is good!!!

over and out.

 

[chameloman72]

Things like this can't be posted here because Brad wants this to be a PEACEFUL forum. If a person or company is shady your not suppose to know it!!

 

[Kent67]

Thanks for letting us know Roberto. Sorry it happened to you.

 

[FaunaBgirl]

Wow Kent.... what a fine looking cham! WOW!