Roach rating showdown

Discussion in 'Chameleon Food' started by Longhorn1234, May 11, 2018.

  1. nightanole

    nightanole Chameleon Enthusiast

    Not all of us have chams that weigh more than a potato :)

    id say smaller feeders are more universal. If you have a colony of normal green bananas, then you almost dont need half grown crickets or meal worms. The males are pretty small, and the females are still eaten by oust's.

    Im still with you that a big feeder will have a better chitin to meat ratio, and odds are more gut load.
    jamest0o0 likes this.
  2. jamest0o0

    jamest0o0 Chameleon Enthusiast

  3. nightanole

    nightanole Chameleon Enthusiast

    She's only a pound, and the adult dubia put up a good fight if she just gets a hold of a leg or wing :)
  4. jamest0o0

    jamest0o0 Chameleon Enthusiast

    They get 10-20lbs though dont they? Do you have an Argentine black and white?
  5. nightanole

    nightanole Chameleon Enthusiast

    Its like aliens saying your human can get to 6.8 and 450lbs.

    I have a red female.

    "typical" females will be around 3ft and 4-7lbs
    "typical" males will be around 4ft and 7-14lbs

    "fat" b/w and red tegus can get to 20lbs

    Then there is the very rare 4.5-5 footers, or the "giants" that are another breed of b/w that can also get to 4.5-5ft.

    So she is 20" and 1 pound. The law of squares dictates that if she doubles in length to 40" she will weigh 10lbs.
    jamest0o0 likes this.
  6. jamest0o0

    jamest0o0 Chameleon Enthusiast

    Ahhh gotcha, makes sense. Still very big though!
  7. nightanole

    nightanole Chameleon Enthusiast

    Harry my Oust only got to 350g, i think i project my stature onto my extended family members.
  8. jamest0o0

    jamest0o0 Chameleon Enthusiast

    @nightanole I was going to buy an oustalet's awhile back. I hear they can be longer than parson's. Didn't know what their average weight was though. Everyone has said they are very docile and easy going chams.
  9. nightanole

    nightanole Chameleon Enthusiast

    Females are around 300g and males are around 500g. Ive seen some males weigh in at 650g. And yes they seem to require zero taming, like beardies.
    jamest0o0 likes this.
  10. JoeDigiorgio

    JoeDigiorgio Avid Member

    @jamest0o0 I can say firstly that since I was a kid, the advice of the older experienced keepers has always consistently been to feed more small prey over fewer large prey items.

    Anecdotally, I noticed my chameleons maintain a better body composition this way and their poop look better as well. They also take more food per feeding this way.

    I’m assuming the logic here is a more favorable chitin:guts ratio and easier digestion. By guts I mean not only the intestines filled with gut load but also the rest of the moist internal composition of the insects vs exoskeleton. I am trying to find some sort of scholarly article supporting this idea.

    Don’t get me wrong I don’t think your doing the animal a disservice by choosing larger prey within reason. I feed 9 different roaches alone, before even counting any of the other non-roach feeders I use regularly. I do think there is real value in keeping a couple of smaller species in addition to the larger ones though.

    Banana roaches are a nice treat loved by pretty much all chameleons but kind of a pain to actually use as feeders. They run to cover very quickly then stop. I don’t know if I’d put them in my top 5. Surinam are bulky for their size. They cant scurry quickly up a smooth surface like other climbers.

    As someone who keeps large chameleons, I wouldn’t give up my small species of roach for anything.
  11. jamest0o0

    jamest0o0 Chameleon Enthusiast

    @JoeDigiorgio I've heard the smaller prey thing before too, but never really knew why and now just go by anything as wide as space between eyes and smaller.

    My problem is, my chams don't always easily accept most foods, so it's easier to get one good sized roach in them than 5-10. My Parsons only seems to like larger roaches as they run away from him. To do this with small roaches would take a lot of time each day, especially since parson's don't move very much or fast as it is. As for meat to chitin ratio, I figured larger would be better, but I'm not sure.

    Don't get me wrong, I still feed smaller feeders at times. I would just say the bulk of my feedings are larger with about 20% being smaller(giant canyon isopods, bottleflies, worms, larvae, occasional small roach, etc).

    Anyway, you have me sold on surinams, you said they do fine with the banana roaches in the same bin? Any other roaches you mix that do fine? Any other roach species you could recommend? Right now I'm trying to get my 12 discoid roaches to reproduce, though no nymphs so far after a few months... my feeder roaches are OH, dubia, hissers, and ivory. Also waiting on yellow porcelains to take off, which has been very slow.
  12. JacksJill

    JacksJill Chameleon Enthusiast

    In defense of smaller feeders, in chameleons that have temporal glands like Jacksonii and a Melleri it is said to be better to feed smaller prey rather than risk injury and inflammation of the gland.
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  13. jamest0o0

    jamest0o0 Chameleon Enthusiast

    @JacksJill is that common? I also read that infections in the gland could be from vitamin A deficiency. Interesting that the theory is they use the gland to leave a nasty scent to attract flies and/or deter predators.

    In any case. I don't have trioceros so one less worry for me lol :).
  14. JacksJill

    JacksJill Chameleon Enthusiast

    One more worry for me & Joe. :(
    All I know for sure is it's a husbandry issue and feeder size is just one possible cause. I've heard deficiency & imbalance theory's, high day time humidity and lack of outdoor UVB.
    JoeDigiorgio and jamest0o0 like this.
  15. JoeDigiorgio

    JoeDigiorgio Avid Member

    I believe gyna do well in the same environment as banana and Surinam roaches. I personally plan to add a species of gyna, probably lurida, to my Surinam/banana bin later this summer after I move them to a bigger bin. I also plan to add a second member of the Pycnoscelus family to the bin at that time. There are at least 3-4 other parthenogenetic members of that family along with Surinam roaches.
    jamest0o0 likes this.
  16. jamest0o0

    jamest0o0 Chameleon Enthusiast

    Do surinams do well with small bins like ivorys or do they need a lot of space? And happen to know where to get any surinams?

    Thanks for sharing
  17. JoeDigiorgio

    JoeDigiorgio Avid Member

    They like floor space. I use the 4” tall bins that are long and wide. Most people I’ve seen keeping them you plastic shoeboxes.

    I’ll have to check my bins. I might be able to spare a decent sized starter.
    jamest0o0 likes this.
  18. jamest0o0

    jamest0o0 Chameleon Enthusiast

    @JoeDigiorgio no biggy, but if you could I'd for sure appreciate it. If there's anything I could trade, or whatever you'd want for some, just lmk. Thanks
  19. Andee

    Andee Chameleon Enthusiast

    I give mine medium sized floor space but with 6 inches of substrate. They are insanely happy. I feed from them more currently than my dubia.
    jamest0o0 likes this.
  20. Longhorn1234

    Longhorn1234 Established Member

    Are there any other roaches, other than red runners, that do not burrow?

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