Restless Veiled

nightanole

Chameleon Enthusiast
Lighting - Standard dual dome with UVB 5.0 and Blue Basking bulb on for 8 hours daily. I have a UVA/UVB light meter but it reads and measures both at the same time. Output reading is mW/cm2 and uW/cm2 but I've no clue what reading to expect with it.

You have a 3ft tall cage. That setup is meant for anoles in a 1ft tall aquarium.


You have #UV513AB UVA/B light meter is ideal for applications including UV curing and sterilization, semiconductor fabrication, offset printing, environmental monitoring and industrial process control.

Like the 6.2 solarmeter, its also meant for measuring industrial lighting and measures in uW/cm2.

Here is the problem, you are trying to measure "natural light" or "mimicked natural light". UVI is the standard for measuring natural light. There is no direct translation, but a rule of thumb is 35-45:1 ratio. So if your meter is saying 40uW/cm2, odds are your bulb is putting out 1 UVI.

As others have stated, the cham should be able to wander into a 3 UVI peak zone, and should have half the cage height at least .5 UVI, i try to keep my "chameleon hang out zone" around 1.5UVI since they are like carp, and even with unlimited height, will generally only hang out at one level.

But if your dome CFL is only putting out .5 UVI at 1 foot(and im being generous) its not going to help much in a 3ft tall cage. Like wise if you put the recommended 5.0 T5HO on your 1ft anole tank, you would end up nuking the little guys :p
 

Hatesu

New Member
Skittles and kinyonga, thank you. Excellent answers and I appreciate it. I suspected she might be a horn dog but wanted confirmation. I also wanted to address any other possible issues before they become complications. I greatly appreciate it. I really wish I had sprung for the 6.5 but I didn't so, I have to work with what I have. I know this meter would work fine if only I could find a translation for the readings to compare with the 6.5 everybody else uses. In the mean time, I'll get the 10.0 set up tomorrow, it's an easy enough fix to set it at that height and will have to do for now. I really want to find more specific answers on the meter as it will greatly simplify things. I've already put a lay bin back inside since she's not eating anyways it shouldn't be a problem.
 

MissSkittles

Chameleon Enthusiast
Breaking this into 2 parts in case I get called to work. Putting my feedback in bold. :)

Chameleon Info:

  • Your Chameleon - Female Veiled. She was 3 months when I purchased her and I've had her for 4 months at least. I'm terrible with dates and time but I'd guess she's 7-8 months. Looks about right.
  • Handling - Only when she comes to me and for very short periods. I might bring her out in the shaded sun for 10-15 min on occasion. Veileds aren’t known for being very friendly, but it’s very good that you ‘ve built trust with her.
  • Feeding -Crickets, Dubia, Super Worms, Horned Worms in that order. I raise my own insects or buy locally. They eat standard cricket cuisine from Josh's Frogs. She also was eating greens daily that I mist with water since I never see her drink. How much and how often are you feeding her? It’s very important that we not overfeed our ladies as it can cause them to produce huge clutches of eggs. Producing and laying eggs shortens the lifespans of our sweet girls, so we try to reduce their egg production/laying thru lower basking temps and diet. I give my girls (actually all of my chameleons) 3-4 feeders, 3 days a week, plus occasional treats. This has worked beautifully in reducing laying for my girls. Your variety of feeders is wonderful! I’m not familiar with the cricket cuisine, but I would suggest adding some fresh produce to your feeders diets.
  • Supplements - Rep-cal Calcium no Vit D, Rep-cal Calcium w/Vit D, Rep-cal Herptivite and Exo Terra Multi Vitamin. I alternate a few days weekly. Ok…supplements are ok, but let me give you a better schedule for them. You’ll want to use the calcium without D lightly dusted at every feeding except one per week. Then for that one weekly feeding you’ll alternate between using the calcium with D3 and one of your multivitamins, so that each is given once every other week. You don’t want to overdo any of the vitamins or minerals as some can build up and have effects just as bad as not using any. @kinyonga already explained about vitamin D and A.
  • Watering - Humidity is pretty high, around 50-60% This is too high. Ideal during the day is between 30-50%. so I've not been consistent with spraying but once or twice daily every other day. This is how your chameleon gets her drinking water. Ideally you should be spraying for about 2 minutes right before lights go on and off at minimum. There are various misting systems available that are automated. Mist King is perhaps one of the better systems. I do try and turn on the dripper daily at the very least. Using a dripper is another way for your girl to get drinking water. You really need to stay consistent on providing her a source of drinking water. I spray the entire cage and it's contents while trying to avoid hitting her directly. I also spray through the screen to break the spray up into more of a fine mist.
  • Fecal Description - Haven't really paid attention lately but normal consistency white and brown. Never been tested for parasites. It’s always a good idea to have a fecal check for parasites.
  • History - Pretty smooth sailing so far. She was eating daily and wearing relaxed colors. Pretty chill most of the time.
Will have the second part in a bit. :)
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Queen
You said..."since she's not eating anyways it shouldn't be a problem"...she may surprise you on that! If you use the sand I mentioned though it shouldn't matter if she eats some.
 

Hatesu

New Member
"Here is the problem, you are trying to measure "natural light" or "mimicked natural light". UVI is the standard for measuring natural light. There is no direct translation, but a rule of thumb is 35-45:1 ratio. So if your meter is saying 40uW/cm2, odds are your bulb is putting out 1 UVI."

I had read something to this effect while digging around for readings on that thing so this helps immensely. Definitely need to address the lighting issue and this confirms it, thanks.
 

Hatesu

New Member
I have play sand if that's what you mean. I use it with the Ackie enclosure so no shortage of play sand here. I'll keep an eye on her regardless to make sure she doesn't gorge on it.
 

MissSkittles

Chameleon Enthusiast
Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Screen cage, 36x18x18 The minimum size for an adult is 2x2x4’ or equivalent. There really is a big difference between the sizes. If you saw them side by side you’d be floored. They not only do use all of the space that we give them, but it does stress them to be in an enclosure that is too small.
  • Lighting - Standard dual dome with UVB 5.0 and Blue Basking bulb on for 8 hours daily. I have a UVA/UVB light meter but it reads and measures both at the same time. Output reading is mW/cm2 and uW/cm2 but I've no clue what reading to expect with it. I am familiar with Ferguson Zones and reading boxes to set lights at the proper height. I did find a reading once with a different tool and my readings were similar at the basking spot but I can't remember what the numbers were at this time. After reading I'm aware lighting might be part of the issue because of the blue bulb. Some swear a 5.0 is fine other says 10.0 but I would prefer to use the light meter if possible. Her basking spot is fairly close to the top and she spent most of her time here so figured 5.0 was enough. I think we’ve covered this enough. The only thing that hasn’t yet been said is that your uvb fixture should be long enough to span the width of your enclosure.
  • Temperature - Basking spot around 85 with average room temps in the mid 70's. I have a normal thermometer and infrared. For our ladies we keep their basking temps no higher than 80 to help lower their metabolism for egg laying reduction.
  • Humidity - 50-60% measured with digital Hygrometer in the cage. It's humid here in Maine during the summer so it's not difficult to maintain these numbers at all. I do have a fogger incase I need it in the winter. Your humidity is a bit too high. If there’s no way you can lower it a bit, at the very least make sure she has very good ventilation. High heat plus high humidity increases risks for respiratory infection. However, poor ventilation also plays a big part of that. If you go to Chameleon Academy, they talk about naturalistic hydration thru fog. That would be something to consider in cooler weather.
  • Plants -Just a single small Pothos since she was eating dirt out of the other plants. It has enough leaf coverage to prevent this. Want to get more plants. Yes! The more, the merrier! Some cover their plants soil with rocks too big to be eaten (at least 1.5-2”). Keep in mind that some will require a plant grow light. Pothos and philodendron are both safe and super easy to grow. This may help with a list of those that are safe. Your little lady will nibble her plants. It’s why it’s best to remove all fake ones as just one bite can cause fecal impaction/obstruction. I hang my fake plants on the outside doors of my enclosures.
  • Placement - In my beedroom/office and I'm in here most of the day but it's never bothered her before. I do have a box fan on the floor to move air in here since it gets hot with PC equipment. Also have a heat pump in here but I don't like it cold since I get cold easy. Again, usually around 75 in here with dips down to 72 but she's pretty far from the heat pump. Her cage sits on my dresser so even when I'm standing she's above me. The dresser is about 36 inches tall.
  • Location - Maine, USA

Current Problem - As I said above, it's been smooth sailing so far. She always wears relaxed colors and chills in her basking spot. Lately she's showing what I perceive as light stress colors (stripes and spots are showing). She never shows these colors unless I spook her. The more spooked she is the darker the colors. Also was showing quite a bit of yellow which I never noticed before. She's been really restless lately, wandering around her cage and won't take much of anything for food. In the last 2 weeks I think she ate one cricket and two horned worms. Her response to food is to climb on it to get on me. I can't even open the door without her literally flying out of the cage at me. I did have an egg laying bin in there but since she was eating the dirt out of it I had to remove it. Not sure why she would eat dirt as I thought her diet was pretty good but maybe I'm missing something. I did give her belly a feel as I initially thought egg time but, I couldn't feel anything. I'm at a loss, she might bask for 10-15 min at a time but spend a majority of her time looking for a way out of the cage. Whatever this is I would like to nip it in the bud asap. I don’t know why she would be eating dirt. Has to have something to do with vitamins/minerals. @kinyonga already advised about a lay bin.
Your husbandry is pretty close…just need a few tweaks and all will be perfect. :)
 

Lindasjackson

Chameleon Enthusiast
@Hatesu since you are in Maine, I am upgrading my 24x24x48 inch cage in October and will have this one available if you want it. I will give it to you if you come get it. It’s not in perfect condition but it is workable. It’s a reptizoo XL all screen cage. I have no idea where in Maine you live but like I said I will give it to you to help your girl and make her more comfortable. Just let me know.
 

Hatesu

New Member
@Hatesu since you are in Maine, I am upgrading my 24x24x48 inch cage in October and will have this one available if you want it. I will give it to you if you come get it. It’s not in perfect condition but it is workable. It’s a reptizoo XL all screen cage. I have no idea where in Maine you live but like I said I will give it to you to help your girl and make her more comfortable. Just let me know.
That is incredibly generous. I might take you up on that offer. I did look at cages and they aren't super bad but even 120 bucks is difficult at this time. I lost my job back in March and Started a business on top of everything. I sell doll clothing and accessories so, if that's your thing go check my shop out on Etsy. Name of my shop is Obitsuroidandmore, I currently specialize in 11cm BJD but am looking to expand eventually. End shameless plug.

I set up the T5 I had on hand and the numbers look much better. I also ditched the blue light and got a regular clear white one. I probably should have asked if white or clear white was better. She's seems to have calmed down a little bit. She's still climbing up and down the cage but sits in the new basking spot and chills for the most part. I also have to bring the car in tomorrow for service but they happen to be near a really great greenhouse so I'll see about getting a better plant to put inside. Something larger with more coverage so she feels a little more secure.
Are you replying to me?
If you use the sand I mentioned it's the safest one I've found for them if the do ingest it.
Yes, play sand. The stuff they use in sand boxes for kids. It's sterilized or rather clean sand.
Do you actually hate me?
I don't hate anybody. It's just a clever gaming handle that very few people pick up on. Most people assume it's Japanese or something.
 

CalamityCrow

Established Member
If you're getting plants, here's a good list from CHameleon Academy (he has culminated a lot of research and experience over decades to come up with these plants) that are cham-safe. Just in case you don't have a list already. :)
 

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Lindasjackson

Chameleon Enthusiast
That is incredibly generous. I might take you up on that offer. I did look at cages and they aren't super bad but even 120 bucks is difficult at this time. I lost my job back in March and Started a business on top of everything. I sell doll clothing and accessories so, if that's your thing go check my shop out on Etsy. Name of my shop is Obitsuroidandmore, I currently specialize in 11cm BJD but am looking to expand eventually. End shameless plug.

I set up the T5 I had on hand and the numbers look much better. I also ditched the blue light and got a regular clear white one. I probably should have asked if white or clear white was better. She's seems to have calmed down a little bit. She's still climbing up and down the cage but sits in the new basking spot and chills for the most part. I also have to bring the car in tomorrow for service but they happen to be near a really great greenhouse so I'll see about getting a better plant to put inside. Something larger with more coverage so she feels a little more secure.

Yes, play sand. The stuff they use in sand boxes for kids. It's sterilized or rather clean sand.

I don't hate anybody. It's just a clever gaming handle that very few people pick up on. Most people assume it's Japanese or something.
what a coincidence! I make reborn dolls! I know they’re not the same as bjd dolls but I love dolls of all kinds! My mother is 87 years old and was an antique and collectible doll dealer in the area for years and years! We did many doll shows for years together. It’s a small world! I’ll go check out your Etsy.
 

Hatesu

New Member
Wanted to pop in and say thanks to everybody that helped, particularly Lindasjackson. I really appreciate all the information as well as the cage,plants and Dragon Ledges. I can't thank you enough so, thank you. She made it through her first clutch of eggs just fine. I only found one egg but need to finish going through the bin. I ended up getting a rather large one since she pushed all the dirt out of the first bin I had in there. I wanted to make absolutely sure it was big enough for her. I will probably switch it out for something a bit smaller eventually. I also need to get a better light fixture for the Arcadia bulb since I'm using a hood I modified to work with a stand I made with scrap wood. I checked the light readings and compared it to what I found in Linda's setup so it should be suitable for now. She tends to bask in the highest UVB spot almost all of the time. She's also eating and drinking regularly so, I think she will be just fine. Here's a picture of the updated setup, hopefully you can see it OK. I'm not really sure what parameters this forum allows for photos so I had to shrink it down a bit.
 

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MissSkittles

Chameleon Enthusiast
I’m so very glad that all is going so well for you and your pretty girl. My girls have always preferred larger bins too. They can be quite fussy about it. Linda was in contact with me, so I know that I don’t need to remind you about reduced feeding and all that. :) The only advice that I will give is that you could add some more branches for your little sweetie to travel on. To fully utilize your Dragon Ledges, check this out. https://dragonstrand.com/getting-the-most-from-your-dragon-strand-dragon-ledges/ Do be careful that your girl doesn’t get too hot or burned from being so close to basking bulb. There should be about 9” distance from your uvb to basking area, and I usually keep the same distance with basking bulb too. Aside from that, I think all looks pretty good and you’re doing great. Thank you for coming back and letting us know how you’re doing. We love hearing about your success.🥰
 
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