Restless Veiled

Hatesu

New Member
Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - Female Veiled. She was 3 months when I purchased her and I've had her for 4 months at least. I'm terrible with dates and time but I'd guess she's 7-8 months.
  • Handling - Only when she comes to me and for very short periods. I might bring her out in the shaded sun for 10-15 min on occasion.
  • Feeding -Crickets, Dubia, Super Worms, Horned Worms in that order. I raise my own insects or buy locally. They eat standard cricket cuisine from Josh's Frogs. She also was eating greens daily that I mist with water since I never see her drink.
  • Supplements - Rep-cal Calcium no Vit D, Rep-cal Calcium w/Vit D, Rep-cal Herptivite and Exo Terra Multi Vitamin. I alternate a few days weekly.
  • Watering - Humidity is pretty high, around 50-60% so I've not been consistent with spraying but once or twice daily every other day. I do try and turn on the dripper daily at the very least. I spray the entire cage and it's contents while trying to avoid hitting her directly. I also spray through the screen to break the spray up into more of a fine mist.
  • Fecal Description - Haven't really paid attention lately but normal consistency white and brown. Never been tested for parasites.
  • History - Pretty smooth sailing so far. She was eating daily and wearing relaxed colors. Pretty chill most of the time.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Screen cage, 36x18x18
  • Lighting - Standard dual dome with UVB 5.0 and Blue Basking bulb on for 8 hours daily. I have a UVA/UVB light meter but it reads and measures both at the same time. Output reading is mW/cm2 and uW/cm2 but I've no clue what reading to expect with it. I am familiar with Ferguson Zones and reading boxes to set lights at the proper height. I did find a reading once with a different tool and my readings were similar at the basking spot but I can't remember what the numbers were at this time. After reading I'm aware lighting might be part of the issue because of the blue bulb. Some swear a 5.0 is fine other says 10.0 but I would prefer to use the light meter if possible. Her basking spot is fairly close to the top and she spent most of her time here so figured 5.0 was enough.
  • Temperature - Basking spot around 85 with average room temps in the mid 70's. I have a normal thermometer and infrared.
  • Humidity - 50-60% measured with digital Hygrometer in the cage. It's humid here in Maine during the summer so it's not difficult to maintain these numbers at all. I do have a fogger incase I need it in the winter.
  • Plants -Just a single small Pothos since she was eating dirt out of the other plants. It has enough leaf coverage to prevent this. Want to get more plants.
  • Placement - In my beedroom/office and I'm in here most of the day but it's never bothered her before. I do have a box fan on the floor to move air in here since it gets hot with PC equipment. Also have a heat pump in here but I don't like it cold since I get cold easy. Again, usually around 75 in here with dips down to 72 but she's pretty far from the heat pump. Her cage sits on my dresser so even when I'm standing she's above me. The dresser is about 36 inches tall.
  • Location - Maine, USA

Current Problem - As I said above, it's been smooth sailing so far. She always wears relaxed colors and chills in her basking spot. Lately she's showing what I perceive as light stress colors (stripes and spots are showing). She never shows these colors unless I spook her. The more spooked she is the darker the colors. Also was showing quite a bit of yellow which I never noticed before. She's been really restless lately, wandering around her cage and won't take much of anything for food. In the last 2 weeks I think she ate one cricket and two horned worms. Her response to food is to climb on it to get on me. I can't even open the door without her literally flying out of the cage at me. I did have an egg laying bin in there but since she was eating the dirt out of it I had to remove it. Not sure why she would eat dirt as I thought her diet was pretty good but maybe I'm missing something. I did give her belly a feel as I initially thought egg time but, I couldn't feel anything. I'm at a loss, she might bask for 10-15 min at a time but spend a majority of her time looking for a way out of the cage. Whatever this is I would like to nip it in the bud asap.
 

Lindasjackson

Chameleon Enthusiast
Well since it’s the weekend people may not be online so I will tell you what I do know about what’s going on. this is friendly advice so don’t take offense, I’m just trying to help. You need a t5ho fixture, long linear and either a Arcadia 6% or reptisun 5.0 bulb to fit it and it needs to span the width of the top of your cage. These are the only lights we recomend. The light youare using is a compact uvb and it doesnt give off enough uvb for her and your risking possible mbd. Now with that said, her cage is way too small for her and that’s probably why she’s always insisting on coming out of it. She needs at least a 24x24x48 inch cage. you can get a reptibreeze extra large or you can check out diy cages or even dragon strand cages. Next you need to check out https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/
there’s tons of great info on this site!
oh and she needs a lay bin since she’s within maturity age. Veilds can lay eggs even if never mated with a male. Kinda like chickens. That’s another reason she might be wanting to roam. She maybe looking for a place to lay her eggs. You’ll need a plastic bin about 12x12 inches and about 6-8 inches deep filled with moistened play sand. It needs to be just moist enough to hold a tunnel that won’t collapse on her. The blue daylight bulb that comes with the chameleon kit is not good either. Colored lights can harm chams eyes. Just a regular household bulb like a halogen bulb will suffice as long as it isn’t an LED.
 
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Hatesu

New Member
The only other bulb I have on hand is a 12 inch 10.0 but I would feel more comfortable knowing what kind of UVB readings I should expect inside the cage. While I appreciate the input, don't get me wrong, saying you need this bulb or that bulb means absolutely nothing when you factor in things like basking height, type of fixture, type of enclosure and type of bulb ect. It's vague advice based on opinion and it varies depending on who you ask. What I do know is they reside in a certain Ferguson zone which gives you some numbers to work with and achieve starting at the top of the enclosure and going down. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about it and I don't know anybody who does. She has basking spots at the top of the cage so I'd been told over and over a 5.0 was plenty. As far as cages are concerned I would be happy to get a larger one but I'm currently unemployed since March. I already built a 2500 dollar enclosure for my Ackie so it's simply not an option with my funds at this time. Certainly, it's something I would consider in the near future.
 

Lindasjackson

Chameleon Enthusiast
The uvb level should be a 3 at the basking branch. The basking branch needs to be at least 8-9 inches below the uvb light to achieve that. But that is if you have a Arcadia 6% or a reptisun 5.0 Long linear bulb. These are the only 2 bulbs we recommend here. The compact 5.0 you have will not give her enough uvb because of the kind of bulb it is. I’m just trying to help and I hope this does help. I hope one of the people I have tagged in will come on and answer the questions you have because they know better than I do. Also you can start reading the info on the chameleon academy site because I believe the info you are asking for is addressed there about the uvb lights. Actually all the advice I’m giving you is addressed there.
 

Hatesu

New Member
Like I said I appreciate the input. It's just you are telling me I need a cage this big with a bulb this big. I don't have a cage that big, however. I have one this big. Thus, my lighting requirements are different. When it comes to lighting, what I would really like to know is what kind of reading I should get with a General Tools UV light meter model UV513AB in uW/cm2 or mW/cm2. Regardless of what light, fixture or cage I'm using I can get the right UV with this information regardless. Last I had googled it and checked to match the reading vs the information I had found at the time it was sufficient but I believe they were using a different tool to measure. I'll look into bulbs once I have a better answer to the lighting question.
 

Sonny13

Chameleon Enthusiast
Hi,
Your girl is receptive and slowly getting in desperate need for a laying bin. The restless behavior (searching for a male to mate) is typical for a receptive female and the next phase is her searching for a good spot to lay her eggs. You already have gotten some great advice regarding minimum cage dimensions and correct lighting from @Lindasjackson and if you would take the effort to read everything on website she supplied to you, you didn’t need to give her that attitude. Her advise is based on facts and not on vague opinions. There’re more things off, like your supplement schedule (this could explain the dirt eating), basking temps (too high for a female) and feeding greens (they’re insectivores). Without reading the basic info first, it’s probably just another vague opinion from one of us. Once you’re open for some constructive advise, we’ll supply it to you, otherwise we will hear from you again when your girl is eggbound.
 

Hatesu

New Member
Not offended and not trying to be rude but I hear way too many opinions on lights with no real numbers or anything to back it up. I've heard a dozen different bulbs from a dozen different people so don't take offence when I ask for specific information. You are supposed to use a meter as that's the best way to determine how much UV they are actually getting so that's the answer I'm looking for.

What exactly about the supplements is off, exactly. I dust her crickets regularly and rotate which supplements I'm giving so it's not the same all the time. I also give a few days between so she doesn't develop deposits from too much vitamins. Greens are just in additions to whatever bugs I'm already giving her which I also give a variety so it's not just crickets or roaches all the time.
 

Tkrd69

Chameleon Enthusiast
Calcium without d3 every day, once every two weeks repti vitamins with d3. Solar meter 6.5 reading of 3.0 is what I was told with a T5HO and 5.0 bulb basking was set at 8-9 inches to get correct reading
 

Lindasjackson

Chameleon Enthusiast
You came here asking questions and looking for help which we are happy to provide you with but you won’t accept our answers so how can we help you? @Beman will either be on later or tomorrow. She is our lighting expert and maybe she can provide the info you are looking for as far as lighting goes but she will tell you that you need the lights I told you about. She will also tell you that your Cham needs a 24x24x48 inch cage as well. We all are strapped for money sometimes but we need to do our best to provide what our chams need, it our obligation when we own them.
 

Hatesu

New Member
When it comes to lighting I want to know what UV reading I should be getting in mW/cm2 or uW/cm2 because a proper keeper would measure the level of light inside the enclosure and keep track over time to be sure the animal it's getting the correct dose and the light is functioning properly. More then happy to change the bulb but the only thing I have on hand currently is a reptizoo HO T5 and it's a 12 inch and 10.0. I can set it up and it should work fine provided it's set at the correct height ect. I had suspicions a compact 5.0 was not enough but couldn't get a real answer.

In response to TKRD69: This is the kind of answer I'm looking for but that's using a Solar Meter 6.5 and I currently have a general tools light meter that measures UVAB so I don't know how that reading would compare with a Solar Meter 6.5. I wish I had sprung for it but I got this instead thinking it would be similar in function and it was a bit cheaper. There is no way to select UVA or UVB, it's both UVA and UVB. It should still work provided one knows how to read it. Thank you, though.
 

Lindasjackson

Chameleon Enthusiast
Again, chameleon academy probably has some of the answers you are seeking. They have tons of podcasts and videos abut lighting and uvb and they have charts about it that I can’t understand but maybe you can, just go look!
 

Hatesu

New Member
Tried posting photo's but they were too large so I need to know the size and dimension requirements to resize them. I'll look at the article when I have more time, thank you.
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Queen
You said as supplements you use (along with one more) ..."Rep-cal Calcium no Vit D, Rep-cal Calcium w/Vit D, Rep-cal Herptivite" ..these are ones I used for years for veileds with no issues...however there is controversy as to whether beta carotene, the prOformed source of vitamin A, is converted by any/some chameleons...so now the thinking is to use a prEformed source of vitamin A once or twice a month.

Blue light...the third eye sees blue and green light so you may be overpowering it and it affects the circadian rhythm. We always recommend white light to avoid issues colors can play a part in.

What's the basking temperature?

You said..."Also was showing quite a bit of yellow which I never noticed before"...likely her adult receptive colors or gravid coloration....which is part of the reason why I wanted the photo.

You said..."she was eating dirt out of the other plants"... You can cover the soil with rocks that are definitely too big for her to ingest to stop her from eating the dirt....female veileds are often found eating the soil and even the sand in the egglaying bin.
They will also strip a pothos plant bare. The soil and plant and sand eating occurs especially when gravid.

The clutch size is important and hinges somewhat on the basking temperatures and the amount you feed the veiled female once she is close to sexual maturity and onward. Over feeding leads to huge clutches, MBD, prolapses, follicular stasis and eggbinding, somyounmay want to control that.

@Beman can address the lighting. (I'm old school.)
Hope this helps!
 

Hatesu

New Member
I had already read about the blue light earlier today so I'll be picking up a normal one. Her highest basking sight is 85F with plenty of places to rest below this if she chooses.

It didn't occur to me to cover the plants with rocks but I had already gotten rid of most of them by the time I had figured that out. I plan on picking some more suitable ones soon.

Provided she starts eating again I'll change up the supplement regimen. I may have gone too light because I was worried about too much.

Sorry if the pictures suck but the forums had a bird when I tried uploading anything larger then 4000x3000 and 2.2mb. Pretty much since I got her she's just been green with the white along her belly but is showing lots of yellow with faint dots. Generally she only showed spots when I would spook her or something.
 

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MissSkittles

Chameleon Enthusiast
When it comes to lighting I want to know what UV reading I should be getting in mW/cm2 or uW/cm2 because a proper keeper would measure the level of light inside the enclosure and keep track over time to be sure the animal it's getting the correct dose and the light is functioning properly. More then happy to change the bulb but the only thing I have on hand currently is a reptizoo HO T5 and it's a 12 inch and 10.0. I can set it up and it should work fine provided it's set at the correct height ect. I had suspicions a compact 5.0 was not enough but couldn't get a real answer.

In response to TKRD69: This is the kind of answer I'm looking for but that's using a Solar Meter 6.5 and I currently have a general tools light meter that measures UVAB so I don't know how that reading would compare with a Solar Meter 6.5. I wish I had sprung for it but I got this instead thinking it would be similar in function and it was a bit cheaper. There is no way to select UVA or UVB, it's both UVA and UVB. It should still work provided one knows how to read it. Thank you, though.
Hi and welcome. I understand your frustration and that you are measuring your light output via a completely different measurement than the rest of us. The only one that may be able to help with the measurement you are using is @nightanole Just about all of us go by the uv index of solarmeter 6.5, which the ideal basking UVI is around 3.0. Generally, if using a linear T5HO fixture with either ReptiSun 5.0 or Arcadia 6%, the average distance for UVI of 3.0 is around 8-9” (from light, thru screen to basking spot). If using a T5HO with a 10.0 uvb bulb, the average distance for 3.0 would be I believe 10-11” away. Does any of this make any sense to you? I hope we can find a common language for lighting and uvb. Maybe this will help? I’m in the middle of getting ready for work, but when I can get back I can go thru all of your husbandry if no one else does. :) Btw, sound like your sweet girl is receptive…all prettied up and desperate to find a handsome boy. Get that lay bin back in for her.
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Queen
I had already read about the blue light earlier today so I'll be picking up a normal one. Her highest basking sight is 85F with plenty of places to rest below this if she chooses.

It didn't occur to me to cover the plants with rocks but I had already gotten rid of most of them by the time I had figured that out. I plan on picking some more suitable ones soon.

Provided she starts eating again I'll change up the supplement regimen. I may have gone too light because I was worried about too much.

Sorry if the pictures suck but the forums had a bird when I tried uploading anything larger then 4000x3000 and 2.2mb. Pretty much since I got her she's just been green with the white along her belly but is showing lots of yellow with faint dots. Generally she only showed spots when I would spook her or something.
Pictures are fine! Pretty little female!
Definitely sexually mature and likely working on eggs....yellow splotches and blue dots tell you that!

I know she may eat the sand in the lay bin but it's important that there is a proper place for her to lay the eggs in her cage. I have used a type of sand produced by kings that comes in a white bag with red, yellow, blue sand toys on the front of it for years. It has never lead to Impaction when eaten or infections in the eyes, etc.

Regarding supplements, as long as you don't overdo the D3 from supplements, it's not all that easy to overdo the calcium. D3 is what makes it possible for the system to use the calcium...so controlling it should control/prevent overdose of the calcium.
D3 and vitamin A need to be in balance too...and of course the ratio of calcium to phos needs to be right.

There are two forms of vitamin A ...PReformed (retinols) and prOformed (from carotenes). PrEformed ones can build up in the system and lead to health issues so we're careful with it, but carotenes are converted as needed and the excess exits the body.

D3 from supplements can build up in the system and lead to MBD, etc. so we are careful with it. D3 produced from exposure to UVB light or direct sunlight shouldn't build up as long as the chameleon can move in and out of that light at will.

I hope this helps!
 
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