Rescue in bad shape NEED INPUT

[jclaiborne]

He does look dehydrated, but the sunken eye turrets can also be caused by general illness. However, it looks to me like he just has his inner eyelid closed? If he is just closing his eyes this could be caused by all the stress and issues you have mentioned.

Sorry if I missed it, but did you mention what vitamin supplements you are providing?

By the way, really good job on taking care of him, you have had quite the road to recovery, and I wish you the best!

I didnt even think about the internal eyelid...that would make sense if it was stress related. Do they tend to go off feed while in shed...all my other reptiles do, but wasnt sure about chams...as far as suppliments the vet told me to keep it simple for now...he is dosed with baytril every other day for the eye infection and i dust his worms with calcium powder with D3. I really hope this little guy makes it...today was a really rough day for him...i hope tomorrow is better.

 

[jclaiborne]

You are doing a really great job.

Dont give up hope on the size and coloring. We took in a boy that was 3.5 years old and after a while he gained some weight and got all of his colors back.

You are on the right track to get him healthy. I did also notice that my panther was a dull color when on medications, but a month or so later started to color back up.

He seems to be dehydrated and that does look like a shed or something in his eye. He has been through so much recently, hopefully he has enough energy to get well.

How do you deal with stuck shed over eyes on chams?

 

[sharp229]

The saline you have been using should be good for that, you can also moisten a q-tip and very gently rub the eye as an additional option.

If he didn't have so much trouble with his grip and was not under so much stress you could put him on a plant in the shower, but I don't think its a good idea with his current condition.

Probably it would be best to keep him stress free as much as you can.

 

[Lovereps]

I didnt even think about the internal eyelid...that would make sense if it was stress related. Do they tend to go off feed while in shed...all my other reptiles do, but wasnt sure about chams...as far as suppliments the vet told me to keep it simple for now...he is dosed with baytril every other day for the eye infection and i dust his worms with calcium powder with D3. I really hope this little guy makes it...today was a really rough day for him...i hope tomorrow is better.

Stop dusting with D3 calcium powder for a month.
Too much D3 is bad for chameleons and if he has been getting D3 with every meal, he has gotten far too much of it.
Calcium with D3 should only be given 2x each month for a Panther chameleon (only 1x a month for montane species like Jackson's).
Calcium without D3 is the one to use most often.
Calcium without D3 is available at LLL Reptile which I know is near to you.
Zoo Med and RepCal both make calcium without D3, as well as the calcium with D3.
Other reptiles receive D3 more often but chameleons are different.
The Baytril may be causing him to not feel like eating.

See if you can get some fresh large Phoenix worms or Calciworms. They shouldn't need to be dusted , as they are naturally high in calcium and their wiggliness often entices chams who are a bit lacking in appetite.


Also, chameleons do not have an inner eyelid, unlike many other types of reptiles.
Perhaps the Baytril isn't effective against the bacteria causing the infection and a different antibiotic may work.
I have found that sometimes an antibiotic eyedrop is also needed when dealing with eye infections.


The eye rinses with the saline should help, so I would be sure to do them a couple of times each day in the absence of an antibiotic drop.

 

[pigglett79]

As stated above you can rinse the eye w saline. I use a syringe without a needle and squirt it in the eye a couple times a day. I agree you likely need an eye drop for an eye infection if that's what the issue is.

He is underweight so anything you can get him to eat will help. Hornworms would be great as well to help w hydration.

The baytril can be hard on them. My panther did not do well on it. He didn't want to eat, became a dull color and didnt change in to his sleeping colors at night. so the vet gave me a critical care food to feed him via syringe while he was on it.

Edit: also what us the basking temp at where he is spending most of his time? My panther has been much more active and hungry since I bumped his temp up to 90.

 

[jclaiborne]

The saline you have been using should be good for that, you can also moisten a q-tip and very gently rub the eye as an additional option.

If he didn't have so much trouble with his grip and was not under so much stress you could put him on a plant in the shower, but I don't think its a good idea with his current condition.

Probably it would be best to keep him stress free as much as you can.

I will give the Q-tip a try today when I get home from work, I was thinking about a shower, but he has a really hard time gripping the plants, and you are correct he gets way to stressed out. He still has a mild prolapse, that is slowly retracting, but anytime he stresses he pushes his hemipenes completely out.

Stop dusting with D3 calcium powder for a month.
Too much D3 is bad for chameleons and if he has been getting D3 with every meal, he has gotten far too much of it.
Calcium with D3 should only be given 2x each month for a Panther chameleon (only 1x a month for montane species like Jackson's).
Calcium without D3 is the one to use most often.
Calcium without D3 is available at LLL Reptile which I know is near to you.
Zoo Med and RepCal both make calcium without D3, as well as the calcium with D3.
Other reptiles receive D3 more often but chameleons are different.
The Baytril may be causing him to not feel like eating.

See if you can get some fresh large Phoenix worms or Calciworms. They shouldn't need to be dusted , as they are naturally high in calcium and their wiggliness often entices chams who are a bit lacking in appetite.


Also, chameleons do not have an inner eyelid, unlike many other types of reptiles.
Perhaps the Baytril isn't effective against the bacteria causing the infection and a different antibiotic may work.
I have found that sometimes an antibiotic eyedrop is also needed when dealing with eye infections.


The eye rinses with the saline should help, so I would be sure to do them a couple of times each day in the absence of an antibiotic drop.

His appetite has gone way down since starting the baytril. He has only been on it for a week, and one day he was doesed he regurged right away. I am going to call the vet today on my lunch break and see if he has anymore input. I am still doing the eye drops and was also given teramycin to put in his eyes. I have some calicium powder without D3 as well, so I will stop using the D3 for now. I will also look into some Calciworms. I will see if LLL can order them for me, if not I will order some online.

As stated above you can rinse the eye w saline. I use a syringe without a needle and squirt it in the eye a couple times a day. I agree you likely need an eye drop for an eye infection if that's what the issue is.

He is underweight so anything you can get him to eat will help. Hornworms would be great as well to help w hydration.

The baytril can be hard on them. My panther did not do well on it. He didn't want to eat, became a dull color and didnt change in to his sleeping colors at night. so the vet gave me a critical care food to feed him via syringe while he was on it.

Edit: also what us the basking temp at where he is spending most of his time? My panther has been much more active and hungry since I bumped his temp up to 90.

His basking temps are up at 90, the problem is that he is still falling so when we leave the house we place him towards the bottom of the cage, when we do this we clamp a lamp down towards where he is at to make sure he is still getting warm. Is it possible that the Baytril is having too much of a negative impact on his health? I don't know what the trade off is, his eyes are in bad shape according to the vet, but if it is keeping him from eating maybe he should stop it until he gets up to weight? I don't know I just feel like since we started it, he hasn't been doing as well, I did however take him shedding as a good sign...

 

[jclaiborne]

will adding sugar or pedialyte to his water help with hydration at this point?

 

[zanethan]

will adding sugar or pedialyte to his water help with hydration at this point?

I don't think so. Sugar and or pedialyte actually dehydrate you but replenish electrolytes lost in the body.

Also you are doing amazing work with this little guy. I don't understand how someone could ever let their pet get in that bad of a condition! Keep up the great work!

 

[jclaiborne]

So he is still in the process of shedding. All that is left is his head and one section of his tail. I am pretty sure they eye issue was stuck shed like you all said. Before I left for work this morning he was rubbing his face on a dowel and peeled some skin from his eye and it looked normal again. He is drinking water from the dropper, but still hasn't eaten. If he doesnt eat today then that makes a total of 4 days without food. However I did move him in his cage this moring and he really clamped onto my finger with his feet and held on, it was the first time where I actually felt a little pinch from how hard he was squeezing. He still looks dehydrated, and I worry about him not eating, but his grip is stronger than it has been. I am hoping once the shed is off his face he will resume eating again. Vet still says there isn't anything he could do, because he believes that dragging him into the office will be too much stress on his body. I will snap some new pics of him once the shed is off to post up here. I am finding myself wondering if he is in pain. I really want him to pull through and I refuse to give up on him, but is there any way to determine if he is suffering in anyway more than he has with his previous owners?

 

[zanethan]

Any update on this little guy?

 

[Andee]

Have you given him any showers to help him rehydrate? I dunno if anyone suggested this as I just read over some of the thread. Even if he can't cling to a tree during a shower you could probably hold him and see if he drinks? It can't hurt to try imo...

 

[jclaiborne]

Any update on this little guy?

He's still chugging along. He went on a hunger strike for about a week, which had us worried, but he is slowly starting to eat again. He is climbing more on his own. Still falls from time to time, but it is happening less and less so thats a good sign. Not much else to update, he isn't growing or putting on weight, but on the other side of the coin he isn't loosing any weight either. The vet did say that this may just be as big as he gets since his growth was stunted so much. I guess only time will tell.

Have you given him any showers to help him rehydrate? I dunno if anyone suggested this as I just read over some of the thread. Even if he can't cling to a tree during a shower you could probably hold him and see if he drinks? It can't hurt to try imo...

I soak him, but don't put him in the shower. When the water hits him even a mist it freaks him out and he starts turning dark colors. I don't want to add anymore stress.

 

[Djturna4thakidz]

Mine turn dark colors too at first but after about 5 mins they relax and start drinking and cleaning their eyes. Keeping your cham hydrated is very important, especially when he is rehabbing. Soaking him stresses him out too and will not help much with hydration.

 

[jclaiborne]

Mine turn dark colors too at first but after about 5 mins they relax and start drinking and cleaning their eyes. Keeping your cham hydrated is very important, especially when he is rehabbing. Soaking him stresses him out too and will not help much with hydration.

I will give it a try, however I don't understand how soaking doesn't help with hydration. According to our vet lizards hydrate when soaking because they absorb water through their vent.

 

[Djturna4thakidz]

I have heard that too but I don't believe they will get the same level of hydration as drinking in the shower. I may be wrong though.

 

[christineacero]

from what I understand, chams absorb incredible amounts of water through their vent when they are soaking. I would continue to do that, instead of freaking him out with the shower. I tried the shower method the other day for my cham who is battling an RI and all it did was scare the living crap out of the poor thing...and shes the type of cham that LIKES to be misted. Your guy is so delicate i would stick to just letting him soak. Just my two cents though!

 

[Cait0420]

I agree with Christine. I wouldn't want to stress him out any more than needed. It sounds like you're doing a great job nursing him back to health, just keep doing what you're doing

 

[jclaiborne]

Sounds good to me...here is an updated pic of the lil guy

 

[Baksmurf]

Just curious, why do you think he's dehydrated? What does his urates look like? His eyes don't look sunken.

He looks fantastic (by the way) compared to a month ago. You have done such a great job with him. He's lucky to have people so dedicated to his rehabilitation.

 

[jclaiborne]

Just curious, why do you think he's dehydrated? What does his urates look like? His eyes don't look sunken.

He looks fantastic (by the way) compared to a month ago. You have done such a great job with him. He's lucky to have people so dedicated to his rehabilitation.

Thank you! He is a little trooper. His urates are white for the most part but some days they have a slight orange yellow look to them, depending on how much he has drank. He still isn't drinking much from the leaves, we still have to use a dropper and he drinks 2cc of water each day. Certain days his skin is a little wrinkled, so thats why I thought he looked dehydrated. On a side note I was looking at his eyes yesterday and noticed in the turret that is swollen that there is a bunch of old stuck shed in there. He doesn't try to rub it out at all, and the vent doesn't want to mess with it right now because of all the stress he has been through, from what I have read there really isn't anything that can be done at home to remove it, so should it just be left alone?