Requesting Advice from Cham Owners

[acalas1409]

Hello, everyone! My name is Antonio and I own a veiled chameleon. EXACT age maybe around 4-5 months. I work at a pet retailer and have owned my veiled for around 2 months now (not my first lizard) but he's been acting up as of late and seek advice because I'm someone who likes to learn from others and take advice when I get stuck. This is my first post however, not my first time on the site but I will get straight to the point.

This is Pascal, when I first received him.


Cute little fellow, pure green. When I first got him, I had a 10 gallon tank that I originally used for my bearded dragon and set it up with vines. I know those are a no-go but this was only for about a week because I had ordered a screen cage on Amazon for $15. It was a small size Repti-breeze. I think the measurements are 12x12x18.



That's my enclosure for Pascal. I use reptile carpet at the bottom just so I have a safe bedding at the bottom and makes cleaning shed skin a whole lot easier as well as droppings. I use a ZooMed ReptiSun 5.0 and have been using a 75-watt ZooMed heat bulb. For misting I almost use my entire of bottle in one misting session. I mist it real good anywhere from 3-4 times daily. He eats about 10-15 large crickets daily, anything else offered is a no-go with him. He has been growing but I've noticed something that worries me. His coloration; I am aware males get intense coloring but he spends most of his day being really dark and he likes to climb around. I've read that can also mean stress. Could it be that he's next to my 40 gallon which houses my beardie? I put a paper towel on the side of his cage so he can't see him and I've even introduced them and my beardie is totally accepting, my cham actually bit him at first and my beardie was just shocked, didn't retaliate thankfully. This little guy was always a sweetheart to me at the store and at first when he originally lived in the 10 gallon but ever since he's been growing and I put him in the screen cage, he constantly hisses at me whenever I open the cage to mist and won't even accept hand feeding anymore. He's always a very dark color throughout the day as you'll see below, sometimes even darker and ABSOLUTELY no one disturbs him.





And at nighttime before he goes to bed he goes to this coloration



Any suggestions to what I can do or if I'm doing something wrong? I constantly regulate temperatures and humidity. His basking spot of the cage is roughly 88-90 degrees with humidity ranging from 40-70%. Once it drops to 40% I mist it back up. At night I turn off the lights and mist real good to raise humidity at night.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. And please don't attack me for being an employee at a pet retailer and not knowing why my cham is acting up, I'm here to learn from the best so I can expand my knowledge.

 

[Duhjoker]

I would get rid of the reptile grass completely and use the PVC bottom that came with the cage. Stuff like reptile grass holds moisture too well which can cause bacteria and other health problems for your cham. And its hard to get totally clean. You should figure out some kinda drainage system. Theres all kinds of methods for this but i found a rather cheap and easy way to do it.

Take a drill and drill around 200 holes in your PVC with a drill bit small enough your feeders cant fit. Then take a piece plywood the same size of the bottom dimensions of the bottom of your cage and screw a 1x1 to the far right and left of the ply wood witb a single at the top. In u shape. Then set your cage on top. From there you can add a tray to catch the excess water.

I dont know how much reading you have done but its mentioned over and over again in the care resources that Chams should NOT have a substrate.

You want moisture in there but it needs to be easily dried to keep mold and bacteria from forming.

And i would move his cage completely out of eyesight from your Beardie. He probably feels threatened and stress is a major factor in color.

 

[kplatvoet]

It sort of looks as if he's still able to see the beardy - and that will cause him stress- and make him more protective - they do get cranky in their "teenage years" (which is really a couple of months when they are nearing a year old-some a little sooner)
There's lots of people who work at pet retailers here - we like you guys - we just wish it wasn't store policy to try and sell us stuff we don't need- It's hard to train as many employee's on all needs of all the different kinds of reptiles and when the margins are made on equipment it doesn't help-
The care sheets on this forum are made up by people who have been raising and keeping chameleons and know better- (I'm not saying I know better, but they do) Check out the care sheet from here
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/
The care sheets here are done for the inexperienced keeper - keeping it simple to try and help new keepers not make big mistakes-
Your also going to need a bigger cage - not one of the ones they sell at the box stores with a picture of a veiled on it either - they are too small- (sorry- sometimes I can't help myself-especially early in the am)
I don't think your problems with him are major - and they should be pretty easy to correct -

 

[camimom]

How are you measuring those basking temps?

What do you supplement with?

 

[Juliaf3]

I think he needs a bigger cage. Just my opinion, but he could be stressed out because he's so confined.

 

[acalas1409]

How are you measuring those basking temps?

What do you supplement with?

I use a dual thermometer/hygrometer. It's not digital. I supplement his food with RepCal and I've been thinking sbout giving him the herptivite supplements once a week since all he eats are gutloaded crickets, nothing else.

 

[acalas1409]

I think he needs a bigger cage. Just my opinion, but he could be stressed out because he's so confined.

I was thinking the same thing. I sometimes see him walking on the screen itself. So larger enclosure? I'm thinking about just buying one for an adult already. The minimum for an adult is 2x2x4, correct?

 

[camimom]

I use a dual thermometer/hygrometer. It's not digital. I supplement his food with RepCal and I've been thinking sbout giving him the herptivite supplements once a week since all he eats are gutloaded crickets, nothing else.

If its that Velcro one from petco, get rid of it.

You need to get a digital thermo to check the temps accurately.

If hes cold, he may not show his brighter colors. they turn dark in order to absorb more heat.

as for supplements, you need to use a calcium with no d3 every feeding, calcium with d3 twice a month, and a multivitamin twice a month.

 

[acalas1409]

If its that Velcro one from petco, get rid of it.

You need to get a digital thermo to check the temps accurately.

If hes cold, he may not show his brighter colors. they turn dark in order to absorb more heat.

as for supplements, you need to use a calcium with no d3 every feeding, calcium with d3 twice a month, and a multivitamin twice a month.

Wow, that's funny. I was always told to stray away from digital but that was for beardies. How come with no D3? I've been feeding him that everyday since I got him.

Also, aren't dark colors due to stress as well?

 

[Lizardguy1]

All good advice above- I have 3 comments:
1) I recommend you cut back watering to 1-2 good mistings/day and then a deep watering/shower with a dripper once a week. Veileds are not a rainforest species, cage conditions should be dry between waterings.
2) try not feeding him for 2-3 days, then introduce something different like dubia roaches, horned worms, superworms, etc. if he's hungry he may be more willing to try them, and once he tries them he may find he likes them.
3) I recommend housing outdoors in Miami if you can. When I lived in Broward I kept my chameleons outdoors year round. Ensure the cage is provided plenty of shade so he can thermoregulate. If you house him outdoors you won't need to supplement with D3, he will produce it naturally through exposure to sunlight. Even when indoors you don't want to provide too much D3, it can cause health problems-

 

[acalas1409]

All good advice above- I have 3 comments:
1) I recommend you cut back watering to 1-2 good mistings/day and then a deep watering/shower with a dripper once a week. Veileds are not a rainforest species, cage conditions should be dry between waterings.
2) try not feeding him for 2-3 days, then introduce something different like dubia roaches, horned worms, superworms, etc. if he's hungry he may be more willing to try them, and once he tries them he may find he likes them.
3) I recommend housing outdoors in Miami if you can. When I lived in Broward I kept my chameleons outdoors year round. Ensure the cage is provided plenty of shade so he can thermoregulate. If you house him outdoors you won't need to supplement with D3, he will produce it naturally through exposure to sunlight. Even when indoors you don't want to provide too much D3, it can cause health problems-

Yeah I know they originate from mountainous regions and are the most forgiving of Chams when it comes to humidity but I always read here of people talking about cage conditions of 60-80% and I feel like I'm underdoing it but thanks, I will try it out. Ahhh, dubia roaches, would've loved them but alas they're illegal in Florida. Superworms I will try out. I'm not too sure I could house him outside since I live in an apartment and have a balcony above mine. Not sure if that would provide optimal UVB and heat. I'll have to test it as well. Would you recommend it during this time of year? we've been having chilly mornings and evenings as well as random cold fronts.

 

[camimom]

Wow, that's funny. I was always told to stray away from digital but that was for beardies. How come with no D3? I've been feeding him that everyday since I got him.

Also, aren't dark colors due to stress as well?

Whoever told you to stay away from digital thermos was not smart.

Anyways, too much d3 causes an overdose, which can lead to issues. you need the calcium no d3 every feeding, if you don't have it, your cham can develop MBD.

the d3 causes an overdose, which can lead to eye issues. balance issues, etc.

you can find some info on it by searching the forum.

yes the dark colors can be due to stress, but the first thing to check is the temps.

if the temps areactually at what you say they are, then the next step is to try an adult sized cage with plenty of foliage inside.

 

[camimom]

Yeah I know they originate from mountainous regions and are the most forgiving of Chams when it comes to humidity but I always read here of people talking about cage conditions of 60-80% and I feel like I'm underdoing it but thanks, I will try it out. Ahhh, dubia roaches, would've loved them but alas they're illegal in Florida. Superworms I will try out. I'm not too sure I could house him outside since I live in an apartment and have a balcony above mine. Not sure if that would provide optimal UVB and heat. I'll have to test it as well. Would you recommend it during this time of year? we've been having chilly mornings and evenings as well as random cold fronts.

if your balcony receives any amount of sun, then he can go out.

temps, as long as in the sun gets to around 70ish, you can put him outside.

dubias are illegal yes, but I think discoids are legal there.

 

[acalas1409]

Whoever told you to stay away from digital thermos was not smart.

Anyways, too much d3 causes an overdose, which can lead to issues. you need the calcium no d3 every feeding, if you don't have it, your cham can develop MBD.

the d3 causes an overdose, which can lead to eye issues. balance issues, etc.

you can find some info on it by searching the forum.

yes the dark colors can be due to stress, but the first thing to check is the temps.

if the temps areactually at what you say they are, then the next step is to try an adult sized cage with plenty of foliage inside.

Holy crap, yeah. His eyes seem to glow yellow sometimes. Could that be it? I know a lot about MBD but I've never seen any signs of it on my chameleon.

 

[acalas1409]

if your balcony receives any amount of sun, then he can go out.

temps, as long as in the sun gets to around 70ish, you can put him outside.

dubias are illegal yes, but I think discoids are legal there.

I just put Pascals cage outside and I started jumping in joy lol he went to a vibrant green within like 60 seconds of being placed outside. So no lamps would be required correct? All I have to do is handle from time to time and mist the cage twice a day? I'm going to invest in building my own cage.

 

[Lizardguy1]

Yeah I know they originate from mountainous regions and are the most forgiving of Chams when it comes to humidity but I always read here of people talking about cage conditions of 60-80% and I feel like I'm underdoing it but thanks, I will try it out. Ahhh, dubia roaches, would've loved them but alas they're illegal in Florida. Superworms I will try out. I'm not too sure I could house him outside since I live in an apartment and have a balcony above mine. Not sure if that would provide optimal UVB and heat. I'll have to test it as well. Would you recommend it during this time of year? we've been having chilly mornings and evenings as well as random cold fronts.

I guess it depends on the orientation of your apartment balcony- if it faces north you won't get any direct sun and you'll be out of luck, east facing will get morning sun, west will get afternoon, south would be best with sun most of the day. My rule of thumb for adult Veileds is they stay outside as long as the overnight lows are mid-40's or higher.

The climate of Veileds natural range is actually much more extreme- very hot and dry at a sea level desert, up to mild and dry at 7000 ft elevation. There is a middle elevation belt in their natural range that can get up to 30 inches of rainfall a year, however even that is less than half of your annual rainfall in Miami, for example, and there are wet and dry seasons there. I'm not suggesting you deprive him of water to test his physiological tolerance for drought, but 4-6 heavy waterings a day and constant 60-80% humidity is a rainforest simulation- it may be suitable for Jackson's, Meller's, and other montane rainforest species, but I believe it is too much constant moisture for Veiled's and over the long term can cause other problems like mold and bacteria growth in the enclosure, and respiratory problems.

 

[camimom]

Holy crap, yeah. His eyes seem to glow yellow sometimes. Could that be it? I know a lot about MBD but I've never seen any signs of it on my chameleon.

I just put Pascals cage outside and I started jumping in joy lol he went to a vibrant green within like 60 seconds of being placed outside. So no lamps would be required correct? All I have to do is handle from time to time and mist the cage twice a day? I'm going to invest in building my own cage.

Are you talking about his actual eyeball or the turret?

eye glowing is not a symptom of overdose. lol.

more like sagging, drooping, swollen, shut, etc.

if he changed that fast, then most likely he was cold.

if the air temp stays around 70ish or higher outside, then no lights are needed.

if you bring him in, uvb and a basking are needed.

in regards to misting- I mist every 2 hours for 2 minutes. my hoard does just find on this schedule, for panthers and veileds.

 

[acalas1409]

I guess it depends on the orientation of your apartment balcony- if it faces north you won't get any direct sun and you'll be out of luck, east facing will get morning sun, west will get afternoon, south would be best with sun most of the day. My rule of thumb for adult Veileds is they stay outside as long as the overnight lows are mid-40's or higher.

The climate of Veileds natural range is actually much more extreme- very hot and dry at a sea level desert, up to mild and dry at 7000 ft elevation. There is a middle elevation belt in their natural range that can get up to 30 inches of rainfall a year, however even that is less than half of your annual rainfall in Miami, for example, and there are wet and dry seasons there. I'm not suggesting you deprive him of water to test his physiological tolerance for drought, but 4-6 heavy waterings a day and constant 60-80% humidity is a rainforest simulation- it may be suitable for Jackson's, Meller's, and other montane rainforest species, but I believe it is too much constant moisture for Veiled's and over the long term can cause other problems like mold and bacteria growth in the enclosure, and respiratory problems.

Thank you very much for all this information. I love sites like these because there are so many knowledgeable people on here that constantly monitor and post. My balcony faces somewhere in the middle of W and NW on a compass so I'm expecting him to receive heavy sunlight around the late afternoon and that type of sun is intense down here. I am hoping this is okay. If not, I'll just place a UVB bulb on his enclosure but once again thank you to everyone who contributed. I will also try and find calcium without the D3 vitamin.

 

[acalas1409]

Are you talking about his actual eyeball or the turret?

eye glowing is not a symptom of overdose. lol.

more like sagging, drooping, swollen, shut, etc.

if he changed that fast, then most likely he was cold.

if the air temp stays around 70ish or higher outside, then no lights are needed.

if you bring him in, uvb and a basking are needed.

in regards to misting- I mist every 2 hours for 2 minutes. my hoard does just find on this schedule, for panthers and veileds.

Oh no. Just the eye color. It's just a glow at times. He is always very alert and never sags his eyes. I will post pics of how I have him in the balcony later on.

 

[camimom]

sometimes they just have bright eyes.