Repti sun v repti glo
- Thread starter AFH
- Start date
Justin Carl
Avid Member
here is a reply to a similar question. i will try to find more:
I would like to share a personal observation about UVB bulbs. I have done no scientific studies, so I will not attempt to draw a scientific conclusion.
This is a long post. Read it if you will...
I've had my male Veiled chameleon since he was about 5 weeks old. He has lived in three different cages in the time I've had him.
The first cage was a small one I built specifically to accomodate him as a really young chameleon. He lived in that cage for about 2 1/2 months.
I used a 30W (90cm) Exo-Terra Reptiglo 5.0 bulb on that cage for UVB. It was too large for the enclosure and the bulb stuck out over the ends of the top of the cage.
I then moved him into another 'juvenile'-sized cage, because my new design sorted out a lot of the drainage issues I was having with the first cage.
For that cage, I bought a 20W (60cm) Exo-Terra Reptiglo 5.0 bulb that was better suited to the size of the cage.
Then when he was about 7 months old I moved him into an adult sized cage where he still lives today (just over a year old now).
For the adult cage, I initially used the same 90cm Reptiglo 5.0 from his first cage.
Everyone (including the pet-stores that make money out of this) recommends that you replace the UVB bulbs every 6-12 months. And I'd seen the UV Guide tests that showed that the Reptiglo output was quite a bit lower than the Zoomed bulbs.
So I was happy to stick to the conservative estimate and replace my bulbs after 6 months of use.
The initial 90cm bulb had only been used for 2 1/2 months in the first cage, so I estimated that I could use it for another 4 months or so in the adult cage.
At around 8 months, my chameleon started eating a lot less. Being a Veiled, he had always been a voracious eater and quite an active hunter.
Initially, I dismissed the change as being part of him getting older: adults eat less than babies.
But then he started going on what seemed to be 'hunger strikes'. He simply refused to hunt down any crickets in his cage. And he wouldn't eat any even in a bowl.
I was told that Veileds can be fussy eaters. So I tried to diversify his meals as much as possible. There were initial successes: upon being offered a new feeder (e.g. superworms, mealworms, silkworms, soldier flies) he would initially eat a lot of them, but then not touch them again for days.
So there were many days that he wasn't eating anything.
I reviewed my husbandry in precise detail (temps were fine, humidity was perfect, drinking and hydration was good, gutloading was religious, dusting was textbook - he was even getting regular doses of sunshine outside). When nothing seemed to be at fault, I started worrying that something more serious was wrong.
Before that he had been growing consistently, now his weight was staying constant - it even looked to me as if he was getting thinner: seemed like less meat on the bones.
So I took him off to the vet. But everything checked out. Bone structure was solid, fecal tests were clean (so that ruled out my suspicion of parasites), calcium levels ok.
The vet assured me that they went through phases, and his loss of appetite could possibly even be linked to the onset of winter and colder ambient temps.
But a few weeks back, my 6 month mark had been reached on the UV bulb in the cage, and there was a reptile expo in town, so I took advantage of the show prices and got some Zoomed Reptisun 5.0 bulbs to replace the Reptiglo ones.
It's been almost 4 weeks since I've had the new bulb in the cage, but the change in behaviour was almost immediate. In the first week with the new bulb, he started eating way more food.
From eating about 1-2 crickets/superworms a day, and sometimes even skipping meals for a day or two, he has now been averaging about 6-8 medium/large crickets a day for the past 3 weeks.
And apart from the light, nothing else has changed. Lights are on the same timer schedule, mister is on the same schedule. Insects are the same sizes as before, and on the same gutload/dusting schedule. Plants are the same.
I've been monitoring the temps, and the ambient and basking temps are the same (if anything, it might be a tad cooler, since it snowed briefly here last night for the first time in about 15 years).
As I said, I have no scientific data to help me come to any conclusions. Was it the brand of the bulb that made the difference (UVGuide would seem to suggest that)? Or was it the age of the previous bulb? (I can verify that the previous bulb had come from sealed packaging, so it was brand new when I started using it) Without a UV meter I can't tell what the difference in output is.
All I know is that since changing the bulb, my cham has been more active and eating more than he has in the past 3-4 months. He seems healthier than ever.
I would like to share a personal observation about UVB bulbs. I have done no scientific studies, so I will not attempt to draw a scientific conclusion.
This is a long post. Read it if you will...
I've had my male Veiled chameleon since he was about 5 weeks old. He has lived in three different cages in the time I've had him.
The first cage was a small one I built specifically to accomodate him as a really young chameleon. He lived in that cage for about 2 1/2 months.
I used a 30W (90cm) Exo-Terra Reptiglo 5.0 bulb on that cage for UVB. It was too large for the enclosure and the bulb stuck out over the ends of the top of the cage.
I then moved him into another 'juvenile'-sized cage, because my new design sorted out a lot of the drainage issues I was having with the first cage.
For that cage, I bought a 20W (60cm) Exo-Terra Reptiglo 5.0 bulb that was better suited to the size of the cage.
Then when he was about 7 months old I moved him into an adult sized cage where he still lives today (just over a year old now).
For the adult cage, I initially used the same 90cm Reptiglo 5.0 from his first cage.
Everyone (including the pet-stores that make money out of this) recommends that you replace the UVB bulbs every 6-12 months. And I'd seen the UV Guide tests that showed that the Reptiglo output was quite a bit lower than the Zoomed bulbs.
So I was happy to stick to the conservative estimate and replace my bulbs after 6 months of use.
The initial 90cm bulb had only been used for 2 1/2 months in the first cage, so I estimated that I could use it for another 4 months or so in the adult cage.
At around 8 months, my chameleon started eating a lot less. Being a Veiled, he had always been a voracious eater and quite an active hunter.
Initially, I dismissed the change as being part of him getting older: adults eat less than babies.
But then he started going on what seemed to be 'hunger strikes'. He simply refused to hunt down any crickets in his cage. And he wouldn't eat any even in a bowl.
I was told that Veileds can be fussy eaters. So I tried to diversify his meals as much as possible. There were initial successes: upon being offered a new feeder (e.g. superworms, mealworms, silkworms, soldier flies) he would initially eat a lot of them, but then not touch them again for days.
So there were many days that he wasn't eating anything.
I reviewed my husbandry in precise detail (temps were fine, humidity was perfect, drinking and hydration was good, gutloading was religious, dusting was textbook - he was even getting regular doses of sunshine outside). When nothing seemed to be at fault, I started worrying that something more serious was wrong.
Before that he had been growing consistently, now his weight was staying constant - it even looked to me as if he was getting thinner: seemed like less meat on the bones.
So I took him off to the vet. But everything checked out. Bone structure was solid, fecal tests were clean (so that ruled out my suspicion of parasites), calcium levels ok.
The vet assured me that they went through phases, and his loss of appetite could possibly even be linked to the onset of winter and colder ambient temps.
But a few weeks back, my 6 month mark had been reached on the UV bulb in the cage, and there was a reptile expo in town, so I took advantage of the show prices and got some Zoomed Reptisun 5.0 bulbs to replace the Reptiglo ones.
It's been almost 4 weeks since I've had the new bulb in the cage, but the change in behaviour was almost immediate. In the first week with the new bulb, he started eating way more food.
From eating about 1-2 crickets/superworms a day, and sometimes even skipping meals for a day or two, he has now been averaging about 6-8 medium/large crickets a day for the past 3 weeks.
And apart from the light, nothing else has changed. Lights are on the same timer schedule, mister is on the same schedule. Insects are the same sizes as before, and on the same gutload/dusting schedule. Plants are the same.
I've been monitoring the temps, and the ambient and basking temps are the same (if anything, it might be a tad cooler, since it snowed briefly here last night for the first time in about 15 years).
As I said, I have no scientific data to help me come to any conclusions. Was it the brand of the bulb that made the difference (UVGuide would seem to suggest that)? Or was it the age of the previous bulb? (I can verify that the previous bulb had come from sealed packaging, so it was brand new when I started using it) Without a UV meter I can't tell what the difference in output is.
All I know is that since changing the bulb, my cham has been more active and eating more than he has in the past 3-4 months. He seems healthier than ever.
Jordan
New Member
The repti-sun will penetrate further into the enclosure. That is the only real advantage of the repti-sun vs. the repti-glo.
Most people have a lot of branches close to the top of their cages, plants that reach up near the tops, so the advantage is really about nothing. It really seems to be a preference thing. The majority seem to use the repti-suns so it is the most recommended.
Most people have a lot of branches close to the top of their cages, plants that reach up near the tops, so the advantage is really about nothing. It really seems to be a preference thing. The majority seem to use the repti-suns so it is the most recommended.
Justin Carl
Avid Member
if i am not mistaken, is the reptisun 5.0 not closer to natural occurring UVB lighting then the reptiglo.
AFH
Avid Member
Okay, thanks for the info. I ask because I just replaced all 8 of my bulbs with the Repti-glo and really didn't want to do it again just yet. I'll go with the Repti-sun next round.
On a similar note, is there anyway to measure the UVB output, as in figuring out when your bulb is dying, aside from degenerative chameleon health? I usually change them out every 6 months, but it would be nice to know if they actually needing replacing first.
AFH
On a similar note, is there anyway to measure the UVB output, as in figuring out when your bulb is dying, aside from degenerative chameleon health? I usually change them out every 6 months, but it would be nice to know if they actually needing replacing first.
AFH
Justin Carl
Avid Member
question: how many chameleons do you have?
answer:they do sell UV meter that can read UVB output. it is cheaper to just buy a new bulb. $13.00vs100's
answer:they do sell UV meter that can read UVB output. it is cheaper to just buy a new bulb. $13.00vs100's
DarkRapture
New Member
Brad Ramsey
Retired Moderator
Dave weldon uses a light meter to do this .... I don't imagine he paid $5000
I don't know ... I just replace the tube a couple of times a year.
You can use the old ones for pygmies!
-Brad
I don't know ... I just replace the tube a couple of times a year.
You can use the old ones for pygmies!
-Brad
AFH
Avid Member
I wonder if this would work.
http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/602-4990761-8644619?ASIN=B000EPYMDW&AFID=Froogle&LNM=B000EPYMDW|Oregon_Scientific_Portable_UV_Sensor&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=B000EPYMDW&ref=tgt_adv_XSG10001
Measure a brand new one and test it later and see if it's weakening. If anything, it would be interesting to see how long these bulbs actually last.
AFH
http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/602-4990761-8644619?ASIN=B000EPYMDW&AFID=Froogle&LNM=B000EPYMDW|Oregon_Scientific_Portable_UV_Sensor&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=B000EPYMDW&ref=tgt_adv_XSG10001
Measure a brand new one and test it later and see if it's weakening. If anything, it would be interesting to see how long these bulbs actually last.
AFH
Brad Ramsey
Retired Moderator
According to Zoomed, and actually confirmed by more than one person who has tested it ... the repti-sun tubes are effective for longer than 6 months.
6 months is a standard ... it is not (like most things in this avocation) an absolute.
You will surely have no trouble providing your chameleon with proper UVB lighting if you replace every 6 months, so it's not a bad rule to follow.
-Brad
6 months is a standard ... it is not (like most things in this avocation) an absolute.
You will surely have no trouble providing your chameleon with proper UVB lighting if you replace every 6 months, so it's not a bad rule to follow.
-Brad
Dave Weldon
Avid Member
Howdy,
I have been very happy with what the UVB reptile community uses as the "Standard" for reptile UVB measurements: Solartech Solarmeter 6.2 at about $160 shipped through http://www.beardeddragons.biz/solarmeter_6.2.htm . Solartech makes a whole series of meters including one for UV Index and another one for Vitamin D3 IU per Minute International Units (IU) of natural vitamin D3. With these special meters you can measure the bioactivity of the UVB (...think quality not quantity of UVB). The 6.2 meter will help you keep track of the aging of the tube (drop in uW/cm2) while the other meters would tell you more about the quality of the UVB. I don't have any personal expereince with the other meters but I've followed the info about them on the UVB_Meter_Owners Group site as well as the http://www.uvguide.co.uk/ site.
Here's a table of D3 activity.
http://personal.inet.fi/private/testudo/Pages/Table 4.html
Note the Reptisun vs. Repti Glo being 439 vs. 151. Even a 1 year-old Reptisun 5.0 is 368.
Not all phosphors are create equal. Some do a much better job of creating vitamin D3 than others.
I have been very happy with what the UVB reptile community uses as the "Standard" for reptile UVB measurements: Solartech Solarmeter 6.2 at about $160 shipped through http://www.beardeddragons.biz/solarmeter_6.2.htm . Solartech makes a whole series of meters including one for UV Index and another one for Vitamin D3 IU per Minute International Units (IU) of natural vitamin D3. With these special meters you can measure the bioactivity of the UVB (...think quality not quantity of UVB). The 6.2 meter will help you keep track of the aging of the tube (drop in uW/cm2) while the other meters would tell you more about the quality of the UVB. I don't have any personal expereince with the other meters but I've followed the info about them on the UVB_Meter_Owners Group site as well as the http://www.uvguide.co.uk/ site.
Here's a table of D3 activity.
http://personal.inet.fi/private/testudo/Pages/Table 4.html
Note the Reptisun vs. Repti Glo being 439 vs. 151. Even a 1 year-old Reptisun 5.0 is 368.
Not all phosphors are create equal. Some do a much better job of creating vitamin D3 than others.
Howdy there
As far as measurements are concerned, I checked out the Solarmeter 6.2 site as well as the UVguide site and a bunch of other sites dealing with this apparatus, it seems convenient and easy to use, with easily processable data, as long as you do some tests on your lights when you buy and unpack them to have a reference value.
On the other hand, the Oregon scientific pocket uv meter seems to be useless in our conditions, too approximative and too human-adapted. Few information concerning technical performance, detection ranges, accuracy and detection setoffs was available. As far as I could see, the UV doses are not even numeric, just a scale of small bars on an LCD display. It doesn't seem fit for the purpose of checking lights, as it is too approximative.
The 5000 buck spectrometer detector mentioned above is certainly from a laboratory or field equipement such as spectrophotometers and other spectral detectors for chemistry and physics - I use them a lot, but for professional purposes
Its high price comes from their on-order manufacture and extreme precision (usually, around 0.5-0.1 nanometer precision on wavelength and fractions of a percent in transmission).
Those would be the very best, as the UV-Visible light detectors are calibrated to detect light intensity in a wavelength range of 150-900nm, some even go into the IR field. They would be the best there is to assess full evolution of the tubes and bulbs over time, as far as broad spectrum is concerned. Furthermore, they could quantify the UVC levels, which are harmful, potentially carcinogenic. Only problem: most are lab equipments not designed for natural or synthetic light exposure, but for lab analysis with weak lasers and such low-power sources. There are probably "outdoor compatible" models too. If I had the money to just say, what the heck, let's get one, I'd probably have one here already
I'll check out with the physicists though if they have some input on those babies
Edit: I just checked with an eminent friend who specializes in electronic detectors, he told me that - if prices allow it - a homemade devices comprised of 4 or 5 photodiodes that detect a specific wavelength (180, 220, 240, 260, 300nm for example) could do it, that is, if they are worth it financially and can measure intensity, not just UV-No UV. further info to come..
As far as measurements are concerned, I checked out the Solarmeter 6.2 site as well as the UVguide site and a bunch of other sites dealing with this apparatus, it seems convenient and easy to use, with easily processable data, as long as you do some tests on your lights when you buy and unpack them to have a reference value.
On the other hand, the Oregon scientific pocket uv meter seems to be useless in our conditions, too approximative and too human-adapted. Few information concerning technical performance, detection ranges, accuracy and detection setoffs was available. As far as I could see, the UV doses are not even numeric, just a scale of small bars on an LCD display. It doesn't seem fit for the purpose of checking lights, as it is too approximative.
The 5000 buck spectrometer detector mentioned above is certainly from a laboratory or field equipement such as spectrophotometers and other spectral detectors for chemistry and physics - I use them a lot, but for professional purposes
Its high price comes from their on-order manufacture and extreme precision (usually, around 0.5-0.1 nanometer precision on wavelength and fractions of a percent in transmission).Those would be the very best, as the UV-Visible light detectors are calibrated to detect light intensity in a wavelength range of 150-900nm, some even go into the IR field. They would be the best there is to assess full evolution of the tubes and bulbs over time, as far as broad spectrum is concerned. Furthermore, they could quantify the UVC levels, which are harmful, potentially carcinogenic. Only problem: most are lab equipments not designed for natural or synthetic light exposure, but for lab analysis with weak lasers and such low-power sources. There are probably "outdoor compatible" models too. If I had the money to just say, what the heck, let's get one, I'd probably have one here already
I'll check out with the physicists though if they have some input on those babies
Edit: I just checked with an eminent friend who specializes in electronic detectors, he told me that - if prices allow it - a homemade devices comprised of 4 or 5 photodiodes that detect a specific wavelength (180, 220, 240, 260, 300nm for example) could do it, that is, if they are worth it financially and can measure intensity, not just UV-No UV. further info to come..
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