Releasing chams into the wild.

[fluxlizard]

Laws, Bans, Governmental Regulations. They just can't seem to let this country be free like its promoted. What a bunch of crooks.

Your releasing your chameleons into the wild only gives them another excuse to take away more freedom from all of us in the name of protecting the environment from idiots who release unwanted exotics into it.

Don't do it.
Ship them to me instead.

 

[Carlton]

I did I still haven't seen the problems As you can see where I stand on the situation from my first post. That is the only problem. Laws, Bans, Governmental Regulations. They just can't seem to let this country be free like its promoted. What a bunch of crooks.

As someone who has spent their 30 year career dealing with the ecologic aftermath of the actions of so-called "free Americans" I just throw up my hands hearing this. Do you really think I am a crook? I've never deceived or cheated anyone and resent your baseless insult. I have never taken a government job for the money but to try to protect the very land YOU depend on from harm. Why do you think all those laws, bans, gov't regulations are needed anyway? To undo the idiotic acts of the ignorant, profit-driven, and the arrogant among us.

Scattering species around the globe for our own pleasure, profit, amusement, bizarre attempts to establish all the birds listed in Shakespeare everywhere, or to have yet another dumb animal to shoot at is the most short sighted, arrogant, disrespectful, and plain stupid act humans can take. The US spends millions every year to fight invasive plants and animals all introduced by careless gardeners, dumb pet owners, clueless state game agencies, and criminals. Who pays for all this? YOU DO! I DO! Why does the AR movement even get the ear of some gov't agencies? Because of carelessness and irresponsibility. And, we also spend millions attempting to protect the more desirable endangered native species that are preyed upon, pushed out, poisoned, or damaged by invasives.

Just in case you've forgotten, here are a few "pests" introduced to the US by human action:

Norway rat
Cane toad
Starling
English sparrow
rock doves (aka city pigeons that spread disease to native falcons)
feral cats
feral dogs
feral pigs
Chytrid fungus (wiping out amphibians worldwide)
White-nosed syndrome fungi (wiping out bats by the millions)
Water hyacinth
cheat grass
reed canarygrass
Bermuda grass
purple loosestrife
Russian thistle
Nutria
kudzu vine
avian malaria
brown tree snake
mongoose
waterborne parasites and diseases
zebra mussel
mitten crab

The list is huge and we have only our own stupidity to blame. Just release those chams to a habitat they don't belong to, sit back and wait. Just because you don't happen to understand the workings of the habitat they'll join does not absolve you. Someone else gets to clean up the mess.

 

[Bernie]

As someone who has spent their 30 year career dealing with the ecologic aftermath of the actions of so-called "free Americans" I just throw up my hands hearing this. Do you really think I am a crook? I've never deceived or cheated anyone and resent your baseless insult. I have never taken a government job for the money but to try to protect the very land YOU depend on from harm. Why do you think all those laws, bans, gov't regulations are needed anyway? To undo the idiotic acts of the ignorant, profit-driven, and the arrogant among us.

Scattering species around the globe for our own pleasure, profit, amusement, bizarre attempts to establish all the birds listed in Shakespeare everywhere, or to have yet another dumb animal to shoot at is the most short sighted, arrogant, disrespectful, and plain stupid act humans can take. The US spends millions every year to fight invasive plants and animals all introduced by careless gardeners, dumb pet owners, clueless state game agencies, and criminals. Who pays for all this? YOU DO! I DO! Why does the AR movement even get the ear of some gov't agencies? Because of carelessness and irresponsibility. And, we also spend millions attempting to protect the more desirable endangered native species that are preyed upon, pushed out, poisoned, or damaged by invasives.

Just in case you've forgotten, here are a few "pests" introduced to the US by human action:

Norway rat
Cane toad
Starling
English sparrow
rock doves (aka city pigeons that spread disease to native falcons)
feral cats
feral dogs
feral pigs
Chytrid fungus (wiping out amphibians worldwide)
White-nosed syndrome fungi (wiping out bats by the millions)
Water hyacinth
cheat grass
reed canarygrass
Bermuda grass
purple loosestrife
Russian thistle
Nutria
kudzu vine
avian malaria
brown tree snake
mongoose
waterborne parasites and diseases
zebra mussel
mitten crab

The list is huge and we have only our own stupidity to blame. Just release those chams to a habitat they don't belong to, sit back and wait. Just because you don't happen to understand the workings of the habitat they'll join does not absolve you. Someone else gets to clean up the mess.

Post of the year!

 

[JackP308]

As someone who has spent their 30 year career dealing with the ecologic aftermath of the actions of so-called "free Americans" I just throw up my hands hearing this. Do you really think I am a crook? I've never deceived or cheated anyone and resent your baseless insult. I have never taken a government job for the money but to try to protect the very land YOU depend on from harm. Why do you think all those laws, bans, gov't regulations are needed anyway? To undo the idiotic acts of the ignorant, profit-driven, and the arrogant among us.

Scattering species around the globe for our own pleasure, profit, amusement, bizarre attempts to establish all the birds listed in Shakespeare everywhere, or to have yet another dumb animal to shoot at is the most short sighted, arrogant, disrespectful, and plain stupid act humans can take. The US spends millions every year to fight invasive plants and animals all introduced by careless gardeners, dumb pet owners, clueless state game agencies, and criminals. Who pays for all this? YOU DO! I DO! Why does the AR movement even get the ear of some gov't agencies? Because of carelessness and irresponsibility. And, we also spend millions attempting to protect the more desirable endangered native species that are preyed upon, pushed out, poisoned, or damaged by invasives.

Just in case you've forgotten, here are a few "pests" introduced to the US by human action:

Norway rat
Cane toad
Starling
English sparrow
rock doves (aka city pigeons that spread disease to native falcons)
feral cats
feral dogs
feral pigs
Chytrid fungus (wiping out amphibians worldwide)
White-nosed syndrome fungi (wiping out bats by the millions)
Water hyacinth
cheat grass
reed canarygrass
Bermuda grass
purple loosestrife
Russian thistle
Nutria
kudzu vine
avian malaria
brown tree snake
mongoose
waterborne parasites and diseases
zebra mussel
mitten crab

The list is huge and we have only our own stupidity to blame. Just release those chams to a habitat they don't belong to, sit back and wait. Just because you don't happen to understand the workings of the habitat they'll join does not absolve you. Someone else gets to clean up the mess.

Good thing I don't release animals into the wild or condone it. Also I really think the OP was kidding as it was a dream. Some of you really do need to lighten up.As I don't see many people on this forum releasing any animals into the wild and if they do they are pretty dumb for doing so. We should be allowed to own want we want though, as I am responsible pet owner .

Also My comment you quoted was for chameleons in South Florida, Show me evidence of their destruction. Imagine they have some impact but I haven't heard of much destruction. Also go back to my first post in the subject. Not a good Idea don't do it. So you are throwing your hands up for no reason. I appreciate your work and what you do for land. Yes most Govt official calling the shots are Crooks are you one I doubt that and never said that but if you want to assume go right ahead.

 

[snax90]

While the ecosystem has been severely impacted by the transfer of plants and animals to places that they would not have normally been able to get to by humans, and the whole planet is on the downhill anyhow with unatural polution and such. It would still be a good idea to try to keep these "incidents" to a minimum. You never know how much of an impact it may have. The new population may survive and flurish for 5 years, then grow to big, eat all the available food, and starve to death, the the spiders they were eating are now gone, the spiders dont keep the grasshoppers and masquitos in check, and then your covered in grasshoppers and mesquitos, you cant eat your pizza when your covered in mesquitos and grasshoppers, so you dont buy pizza, papa johns goes out of business, then the pepperoni farm they get pepperoni from in siberia goes out of business, they lay everyone off, and so the entire population of siberia dies of starvation and heartburn, because all they have is an exccess of pepperonis to eat, so you wind up killing off all of siberia because you released a gravid veiled chameleon in your backyard.
Thats why its not a good idea...

You just gotta love the whole Butterfly effect.

 

[JackP308]

I guess not everyone has common sense. I thought that it would be a given not to release animals into the wild or exotic plants, insect, or anything. Apparently not.

 

[Carlton]

Good thing I don't release animals into the wild or condone it. Also I really think the OP was kidding as it was a dream. Some of you really do need to lighten up.As I don't see many people on this forum releasing any animals into the wild and if they do they are pretty dumb for doing so. We should be allowed to own want we want though, as I am responsible pet owner .

Also My comment you quoted was for chameleons in South Florida, Show me evidence of their destruction. Imagine they have some impact but I haven't heard of much destruction. Also go back to my first post in the subject. Not a good Idea don't do it. So you are throwing your hands up for no reason. I appreciate your work and what you do for land. Yes most Govt official calling the shots are Crooks are you one I doubt that and never said that but if you want to assume go right ahead.

As we say often enough, the intent of posts doesn't always come through. If you were just kidding or being sarcastic in the post I responded to it wasn't all that clear. And, you touched on a 35 year old sore spot to boot. Most gov't employees I've ever met or worked with are really sick and tired of the blanket comments about being crooks, influence peddlars, freeloaders on the pitiful American taxpayer, or under the influence of every dishonest lobbyist on the planet. I'm very glad the OP thought to ask before releasing anything. I wasn't ranting at him at all.

 

[Carlton]

I guess not everyone has common sense. I thought that it would be a given not to release animals into the wild or exotic plants, insect, or anything. Apparently not.

And, it is even done on a "governmental" level in many states...stocking game fish and game birds because the native populations aren't big enough, can't handle the hunting/fishing pressure of an increasing human population and dwindling habitat, or simple enough for the average unskilled sportsman to reach or catch. Historically, it was considered a magnificent thing to airlift and dump thousands of crossbred trout into every lake on the map. Regardless of what native fish just might have been in those lakes, they didn't even check before introducing a predatory fish (and all the ectoparasites and diseases they carried) into lake systems that couldn't or shouldn't have them.

Your state Fish and Game departments at work with your tax dollars. Ironically the same agencies now spend 10 times as much getting rid of the exotics (that turned out to be harmful or disease bearing) they once thought were so wonderful.

 

[Harry]

Haha wow I didn't think I'd get such a strong response. I feel like a bad guy for even suggesting the idea. But i didn't realize I was touching on such a sensitive subject.

 

[d3s5]

Haha wow I didn't think I'd get such a strong response. I feel like a bad guy for even suggesting the idea. But i didn't realize I was touching on such a sensitive subject.

It IS a sensitive topic, but it makes for a great discussion. If even one person reads this and learns something new or gives thought to something they previously hadn't thought of - that is great. Plus, think how thankful the population of Siberia will be - not having to live on all those excess pepperonis. . .

 

[Carlton]

Haha wow I didn't think I'd get such a strong response. I feel like a bad guy for even suggesting the idea. But i didn't realize I was touching on such a sensitive subject.

Actually, I hope you feel like a good guy for thinking and asking before acting!

 

[Black Panther]

You could be ever so kind and release one about 25 miles north into my backyard where I could "catch" one for my new setup

 

[ZippiesPal]

I think its a GRAND idea.....

..... as long as you only do it in your minds eye.

Woundn't it be wonderful if....... [insert fantasy here].

 

[Carlton]

..... as long as you only do it in your minds eye.

Woundn't it be wonderful if....... [insert fantasy here].

Years ago I had a rather weird phone conversation with (I think Steve Davidson...long time ago) the founder of Sticky Tongue Farms about his plan to create a wild colony of panther chams on an island off the coast of Taiwan. His scheme was to release a bunch of his favorite locale and let them take over. He wouldn't have to care for them, just go harvest them once in a while. Regardless what native critters might happen to be there already of course and all for profit.

 

[EvilLost]

I did I still haven't seen the problems As you can see where I stand on the situation from my first post. That is the only problem. Laws, Bans, Governmental Regulations. They just can't seem to let this country be free like its promoted. What a bunch of crooks.

Or maybe they need to make laws because people don't have any understanding of biology, ecology, and the environment.

The laws are poorly written I admit. But that is not the "main" problem.


EDIT: Fully agree the python ban should be just in Florida; HOWEVER, it is prime evidence of environmental impacts.

As far as "destructive" goes; how exactly do you expect someone to show you destructive? Forests aren't burning down here, you can't take a picture of an environmental/ecological collapse or the slow extinction of species. If you really want to "see" it, you would likely need to learn environmental science...

 

[ShipYourReptiles]

Haha wow I didn't think I'd get such a strong response. I feel like a bad guy for even suggesting the idea. But i didn't realize I was touching on such a sensitive subject.

You aren't a bad guy, it is just super sensitive topic given the current legislation passed, and more trying to be passed, because of this very issue- releasing captive reptiles into the wild.

What is amazing is that the legislation issue is THE TALK of the industry, you would think it has near total coverage, and yet the OP makes a thread about "would this be a good idea?".

We have a lot of educational work to do in bringing hobbyists up to speed on this issue. And as hard as we work on that, as much as it is talked about, posted about, shared on facebook, or at reptile shows, there are entire segments of reptile keepers that haven't heard a peep about it, keepers that think about doing it, and keepers that still DO IT.

No, it is never a good idea : )

You are a good guy because you actually thought about it instead of acting on it. Thanks : )

 

[melric]

You aren't a bad guy, it is just super sensitive topic given the current legislation passed, and more trying to be passed, because of this very issue- releasing captive reptiles into the wild.

What is amazing is that the legislation issue is THE TALK of the industry, you would think it has near total coverage, and yet the OP makes a thread about "would this be a good idea?".

We have a lot of educational work to do in bringing hobbyists up to speed on this issue. And as hard as we work on that, as much as it is talked about, posted about, shared on facebook, or at reptile shows, there are entire segments of reptile keepers that haven't heard a peep about it, keepers that think about doing it, and keepers that still DO IT.

No, it is never a good idea : )

You are a good guy because you actually thought about it instead of acting on it. Thanks : )

Wow shipyourreptiles actuallys posts. lol.
Bad idea, laws, freedoms etc etc etc. What everyone else said.

 

[drcrossfire]

Terrible idea-- have you heard of invasive species? Research cane toads in australia.

 

[serenitystarlite]

Release them into a box with my address on it. I will then let them loose into a nice big cage in my apartment. I want 50 baby veiled hatchlings!

 

[ShipYourReptiles]

Wow shipyourreptiles actuallys posts. lol.
Bad idea, laws, freedoms etc etc etc. What everyone else said.

I saw this thread on TheReptileReport, I am glad to be able to keep up with Chameleon stuff, and post : )