Rant: Why Veiled Chams should cost more.

Tyaeda

Member
I am a firm believer that veiled chameleons should cost at least $100, regardless of age or sex. I also don't care about supply and demand.

I believe that the animal's purchase price should reflect what it takes and cost to house and care for it. (My setup cost $500) When they're around the $50 range, there's a risk of people impulsively buying them. For example, when I went in for crickets the other day, I saw a couple who thought the baby veiled cham they had at the store was "cute" and after looking at how much it cost, they agreed that it was "affordable" and told the clerk that they wanted it, before asking what they needed to buy for it. I wasn't there long enough to see the transaction go through, if it did... but it made me angry.

At least, at petsmart, they label each of their reptile's cages with a tag that briefly describes the animal and what level of expertise the owner should have. If they didn't have that, I would have also been naive to a chams needs, and wouldn't have put in so much research and preparation. It would have been a nightmare, for both my husband and I, but especially Mr.Pink!

A decent breeder will provide potential buyers with information, and will deter and refuse those who are ill equipped and under educated. Thank goodness for those people, but unfortunately, of the 4 places around my house where I know I can get veiled chameleons (fairly cheap), neither are breeders. Even some of the reptile specialty stores around here don't know how to properly house, gutload, or care for a chameleon. I can only imagine how many are sold, and eventually neglected. :(
 

Tanner Grisak

New Member
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing but supply and demand rules the prices of just about everything, whether we agree with it or not.
 

Olimpia

Biologist & Ecologist
This gets talked about a lot and there's nothing we can do but I agree.

I agree that veileds shouldn't be the cheap, "tester" chameleon that they are. I don't know how often I see someone say, when someone asks whether they should get a veiled or a panther, that they should get a veiled because they're cheaper so it'll be a better animal to get experience with. The implication being, that if you kill it you're only out $40 or so. I get that not everyone can shrug off $300 if your new, baby panther tragically dies but veileds shouldn't be the disposable first-try chameleon that they are.

Especially when they cost about as much or more to raise as any other species. But they've ended up where they are, price-wise, and it's sad.
 

juice28

New Member
thats not really fair to say they should be expensive because their care is expensive...if that were the case then hamsters should be like 60 dollars. im new to chams but not reptiles and im an avid SW reef tank keeper and there are corals that are considered beginner care level corals that are stupid expensive simply because theyre very pretty and very popular in the SW reef world.. kinda like panthers in the cham world..

veilds are very known with the mass public along with jacksons..but not as sought after as the panthers in the cham world which i think personally are over priced..400 for a baby cham 2-3 months old with no guarantee or maybe 5 days to me is outrageous..its still in shock from shipping and being in a new place...a baby anything being shipped runs a higher risk of getting sick or injured or dying than an older animal thats a bit more..stable so to speak but finding a nice panther under 300 is rare and from what ive read.. there actually the best type of chams to start with but honestly thats what shyed me away from a panther for my first cham was the price..

you can do all the research and reading and watch every video in the world but until you actually do it, that fist time is trial and error and sometimes errors happen and theres nothing you did wrong..thats an expensive error straight out the gate when you consider total cost with set up and vet visits...if i dropped a grand for a baby lizard and spent another grand at the vet and it died day 3 b/c the fedex guy dropped it but i didnt know he dropped it, and this is my first time and i did everything right and couldnt even get a replacement.. that would discourage me from trying it again right away. I HAVE A VEILED AND SHES THE COOLEST THING EVER!..next to my reef tank lol but i still really want a panther

i dont agree that veilds should be viewed as the cheap test dummies that they have been dubbed but...in a way its true.... massive availability to pet stores and being one of the more forgiving species with mistakes or not so perfect conditions makes them the "starter" alot of panther owners order their panthers, or know breeders but the average pet store isnt going to have many panthers..baby panthers just dont have that ooo ahhh its pretty factor enough to someone who ISNT INTO chameleons but wants a cool pet to pay...4-600 for it in a store but the little lime green veiled with the funny looking head for 50-90 bucks does, its a much better and more consistent sell....thats just business...forum is full of panther owners but its flooded with veild owners

just my 10 cents
 

VigilantSpearIII

New Member
thats not really fair to say they should be expensive because their care is expensive...if that were the case then hamsters should be like 60 dollars. im new to chams but not reptiles and im an avid SW reef tank keeper and there are corals that are considered beginner care level corals that are stupid expensive simply because theyre very pretty and very popular in the SW reef world.. kinda like panthers in the cham world..

veilds are very known with the mass public along with jacksons..but not as sought after as the panthers in the cham world which i think personally are over priced..400 for a baby cham 2-3 months old with no guarantee or maybe 5 days to me is outrageous..its still in shock from shipping and being in a new place...a baby anything being shipped runs a higher risk of getting sick or injured or dying than an older animal thats a bit more..stable so to speak but finding a nice panther under 300 is rare and from what ive read.. there actually the best type of chams to start with but honestly thats what shyed me away from a panther for my first cham was the price..

you can do all the research and reading and watch every video in the world but until you actually do it, that fist time is trial and error and sometimes errors happen and theres nothing you did wrong..thats an expensive error straight out the gate when you consider total cost with set up and vet visits...if i dropped a grand for a baby lizard and spent another grand at the vet and it died day 3 b/c the fedex guy dropped it but i didnt know he dropped it, and this is my first time and i did everything right and couldnt even get a replacement.. that would discourage me from trying it again right away. I HAVE A VEILED AND SHES THE COOLEST THING EVER!..next to my reef tank lol but i still really want a panther

i dont agree that veilds should be viewed as the cheap test dummies that they have been dubbed but...in a way its true.... massive availability to pet stores and being one of the more forgiving species with mistakes or not so perfect conditions makes them the "starter" alot of panther owners order their panthers, or know breeders but the average pet store isnt going to have many panthers..baby panthers just dont have that ooo ahhh its pretty factor enough to someone who ISNT INTO chameleons but wants a cool pet to pay...4-600 for it in a store but the little lime green veiled with the funny looking head for 50-90 bucks does, its a much better and more consistent sell....thats just business...forum is full of panther owners but its flooded with veild owners

just my 10 cents

What this guy said... I concur.
 

djfishygillz

Avid Member
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing but supply and demand rules the prices of just about everything, whether we agree with it or not.

Thank you. If veileds were $100 dollars each then hardly anyone would pay that much, they would just pay 20 more and get a panther..

Veileds are EASY no brainers to breed. Yes some breeders don't do it the proper way, but sadly there isn't anything we can do to change that.
 

djfishygillz

Avid Member
This gets talked about a lot and there's nothing we can do but I agree.

I agree that veileds shouldn't be the cheap, "tester" chameleon that they are. I don't know how often I see someone say, when someone asks whether they should get a veiled or a panther, that they should get a veiled because they're cheaper so it'll be a better animal to get experience with. The implication being, that if you kill it you're only out $40 or so. I get that not everyone can shrug off $300 if your new, baby panther tragically dies but veileds shouldn't be the disposable first-try chameleon that they are.

Especially when they cost about as much or more to raise as any other species. But they've ended up where they are, price-wise, and it's sad.

I don't think people always refer veields over panthers because of price. I think it is because veileds are much hardier. I regret starting with panthers, they need a lot more attention than veileds and a lot more knowledge. They are fairly sensitive with little room for error. I have worked with panthers for a few years now, 1,100 post later I still am learning more about them then I would need to learn about veileds.

Also if you spend $40 dollars on the veiled then you have 260 more dollars to buy a proper setup. People that buy a $300 dollar cham but don't have anymore cash to purchase the setup, are s.o.l. and sadly some people do that.

I do respect your opinion though, some people do use them as starters and it is wrong.
 

Olimpia

Biologist & Ecologist
I regret starting with panthers, they need a lot more attention than veileds and a lot more knowledge. They are fairly sensitive with little room for error.

I totally disagree, I find panthers to be extremely hardy and adaptable. Certainly not less than a veiled. I started with a Jackson's and found him to be a breeze too, so maybe I don't find chameleons difficult (even when I was just starting) lol But I definitely would never call panthers delicate.
 

Tyaeda

Member
I paid $110 for my veiled chameleon at a specialty shop. I bought the one I did because he was a he, I could see him, and by all of the research I did, he looked healthy... even saw him eat right before we purchased him. After seeing them cheaper elsewhere, I have no regrets. Any animal shipped through the mail runs the risk of both shipping damage, and false claims about it's health... I don't care how much you pay for it. It's just sad seeing them next to beardies, and geckos for nearly the same price, because those reptiles are for beginners, and are easier to care for. More suitable for the impulse buyers, that run rampant through pet stores everyday.

I can understand if you're buying directly from the breeder at a young age, or from someone selling their pet. I'm referring more to retail prices.
 

juice28

New Member
yea but i havent seem many veiled breeders...im sure ther's a few on here but as far say doing an online search for veiled breeders the only site that comes up really is theveiledchameleon.com..some other sites carry veilds but most sites that seem reputable, at least to me push panthers and may carry veileds but there are few that have the bloodline details for their veilds like they do their panthers..you see baby male whatever local panther from the ..whatever line 3rd generation yada yada yada ..and then you see, veiled cham male or female..baby sub adult adult and premium transluscent..maybe and thats on cham breeder sites as well
 

Yak

New Member
I believe it’s all a matter of fashion, currents or trends. I remember when I Dobermans where “in”, then Pitbulls came along, then the Bull Terriers, after the Chihuahuas, the Jack Russell Terriers, and the list goes on and on, and forgive the order of the trends but you catch my drift.
The result now is a huge massive overpopulated wave of homeless dogs at the shelters waiting in line to be euthanized.
Chameleons are no different, I love my Jackson as much as my panther, and they are both different. When one of my Jacksons got sick and took her to the vet, I did not think twice to pay for her services, second visits and the medicine. I paid $75. For her at a reptile store, the vet bill combined was three hundred. She slept on my hand for one entire week so warm and peacefully, during recovery.
In my opinion, regardless of the breed, is up to each individual to care for his animal, to the best of his ability. With all due respect to all breeders out there, it is up to them to educate the proper care and to prospect the future homes to be.
For example, I bought a Panther from Bruce, of ChameleonParadise. I tip my hat off to him for asking all the right questions to determine if I would be an ideal care giver to one of his babies. Making a dollar was not in his list of priorities.
On the other hand, I’ve seen and heard others that would agree to any sort of environment for the future pet. Things like “oh yeah, you can put him in a fish tank”, or “yeah a regular house light bulb would do”… “What? A pond? Suuure, “
I remember when being part of the JRT club was such an honor, and being the owner of one JRT (Jack Russell Terrier) was such a treat, people would stop you and say, “oh how cute, he looks like wishbone”… Until they took them home and found out the hard way, having a JRT was like having a big dog in a small body. The returns started flooding in; the day after Christmas lost its magic.
I truly hope someday, people start to look at the animals for what they are, living creatures, and companions and give them the respect they deserve. They should be free of charge.
 
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