Quick questions for breeders- Random

[mychamtini112012]

Hehe. I want one of those hoes. I'll take good care of it.

What questions do you plan on asking.?

 

[camimom]

Hehe. I want one of those hoes. I'll take good care of it.

What questions do you plan on asking.?

deal.

and for people who dont know anything about chams,.. the basics, lighting, feeding, watering. etc.

the hoes im just sending a care sheet with them.


if you hae cham experience, a hoe isnt much different,

cooler temps, more water, less supplementing. live bearers.

 

[okiroo]

i feel i'll be very picky when my females are bred/ im raiseing babies. after all, my beautiful girls made them and but energy and care into to the babies, as have i. i want them to be top quality and stay that way with someone who will care for them. i wont settle for less than than and if i have to i'll keep more than i want before i'd sell to a unfit home.

 

[fluxlizard]

One more question, do you ever feel hesitant about who you sell too.? Like do you ask questions about set up or how they want to care for them or anything.?

Yes and no. Your asking a question I visit and revisit from time to time.

I try to be very clear about requirements and educating the buyer about what exactly they are getting in to.

I don't quiz them, instead I am very clear about what is required.

The result is a loss of easy sales when selling things one at a time.

It also results in a lot of time I kind of begrudge as wasted on my part- when selling out animals one at a time I might have 20 or 30 inquiries for every sale. Each of those inquiries requires time asking questions and giving advice. For 1 sale. Time that could be spent with my lizards. Time often spent educating someone so they can thank me by going to buy from someone cheaper but who is less free about giving good advice and/or less knowledgable.

But I feel it is the only way the owner and animal will both be happy.

On the other hand, I do sell some lizards out in lots to distributors, and have sold some lizards in small numbers to pet shops. I do all I can to make sure these lizards have the best possible start with me and are sturdy and thriving when they leave my care here.

Straight up- I'm an individual human rights kind of guy. I don't see lizards as oddly behaving people in funny lizard costumes. I don't see them as my children. As an adoptee myself I *detest* the term adoption when it is applied to animals, and do not like it when animals are referred to as family members. I see them as animals. I hope that my adoption experience and assimilation into my family was not the same thing as when someone adopts a puppy or brings home an iguana from a shelter!

Lizards are lizards- beautiful, wonderful, fascinating, glorious, magnificent creatures that see the world through the eyes and brain of a lizard. Their needs are different from human needs. Most of my lizards could care less if I was caring for them and loving them or if someone else was caring for them properly but not loving them. Most care much more about the food and environment than they care about the person providing it or the love behind it.

These animals are bought and sold and that means they are someone's property. Whoever that someone is *must* be responsible for their needs.

I do all I can for them until they leave my care, but at some point it has to be someone else's responsibility. I try to make sure that the buyers are responsible and run decent operations. I've been to wholesalers and pet shops that I would not sell to because of the way they ran their operation.

I've also learned the hard way that experience and knowledge is no guarantee of a permanent home.

Here on the forums, I sold some not too commonly bred lizards (melleri) at a premium price (hoping to ensure serious buyers who would give the best possible care and possibly try to breed them someday) to experienced owners who gave lots of good advice here on the forums. Within 18 months, most of these owners, in spite of experience and activity level here on the forums, had resold and re-homed these lizards. I believe they went to good homes with other forum members for the most part, but it was very surprising to me to see these people re-home these lizards. If they do it, I know many many other people do the same.

That is really what I wish for all of my animals- permanent long term caring homes for a long lifetime. One thing that would bother me a *lot* is to see one end up in a rescue because the owner broke their commitment to the animal and on top of that was too lazy to even get a decent home for it.

When I have produced green iguanas, I did ask for the buyers to commit to a life-long home because too many from the pet trade end up in rescues.

I've visited the operations of some who are well educated, well respected and well published (including some authors of popular lizard related books and magazine articles). Knowing and even expertise does not always equal expert application of information in husbandry management.

For that matter, a good friend who is very well educated and published has given me numerous lizards after interest was lost. Some really nice ones I would not have otherwise been able to enjoy.

In the end, for me, it comes down to it *has* to be someone else's responsibility after the animal leaves me.

Anything else is impossible and delusional anyway- people can tell you and usually by nature tend to always tell you what you want to hear and people with little experience regurgitate information all the time on the internet, yet apply it poorly in real life. Others with a little knowledge misinterpret it and misapply it while sounding like the most confident experienced experts in the world as they give out their advice on forums.

Others who are simply willing to follow the directions on a care sheet and who return to ask questions but start out knowing almost nothing can make some of the best homes for the animals.

So there you go. A little jumbled and rambling, but my honest thoughts on your topic of interest.

 

[mychamtini112012]

I need to research a little about hoes first.

 

[okiroo]

Yes and no. Your asking a question I visit and revisit from time to time.

I try to be very clear about requirements and educating the buyer about what exactly they are getting in to.

I don't quiz them, instead I am very clear about what is required.

The result is a loss of easy sales when selling things one at a time.

It also results in a lot of time I kind of begrudge as wasted on my part- when selling out animals one at a time I might have 20 or 30 inquiries for every sale. Each of those inquiries requires time asking questions and giving advice. For 1 sale. Time that could be spent with my lizards. Time often spent educating someone so they can thank me by going to buy from someone cheaper but who is less free about giving good advice and/or less knowledgable.

But I feel it is the only way the owner and animal will both be happy.

On the other hand, I do sell some lizards out in lots to distributors, and have sold some lizards in small numbers to pet shops. I do all I can to make sure these lizards have the best possible start with me and are sturdy and thriving when they leave my care here.

Straight up- I'm an individual human rights kind of guy. I don't see lizards as oddly behaving people in funny lizard costumes. I don't see them as my children. As an adoptee myself I *detest* the term adoption when it is applied to animals, and do not like it when animals are referred to as family members. I see them as animals. I hope that my adoption experience and assimilation into my family was not the same thing as when someone adopts a puppy or brings home an iguana from a shelter!

Lizards are lizards- beautiful, wonderful, fascinating, glorious, magnificent creatures that see the world through the eyes and brain of a lizard. Their needs are different from human needs. Most of my lizards could care less if I was caring for them and loving them or if someone else was caring for them properly but not loving them. Most care much more about the food and environment than they care about the person providing it or the love behind it.

These animals are bought and sold and that means they are someone's property. Whoever that someone is *must* be responsible for their needs.

I do all I can for them until they leave my care, but at some point it has to be someone else's responsibility. I try to make sure that the buyers are responsible and run decent operations. I've been to wholesalers and pet shops that I would not sell to because of the way they ran their operation.

I've also learned the hard way that experience and knowledge is no guarantee of a permanent home.

Here on the forums, I sold some not too commonly bred lizards (melleri) at a premium price (hoping to ensure serious buyers who would give the best possible care and possibly try to breed them someday) to experienced owners who gave lots of good advice here on the forums. Within 18 months, most of these owners, in spite of experience and activity level here on the forums, had resold and re-homed these lizards. I believe they went to good homes with other forum members for the most part, but it was very surprising to me to see these people re-home these lizards. If they do it, I know many many other people do the same.

That is really what I wish for all of my animals- permanent long term caring homes for a long lifetime. One thing that would bother me a *lot* is to see one end up in a rescue because the owner broke their commitment to the animal and on top of that was too lazy to even get a decent home for it.

When I have produced green iguanas, I did ask for the buyers to commit to a life-long home because too many from the pet trade end up in rescues.

I've visited the operations of some who are well educated, well respected and well published (including some authors of popular lizard related books and magazine articles). Knowing and even expertise does not always equal expert application of information in husbandry management.

For that matter, a good friend who is very well educated and published has given me numerous lizards after interest was lost. Some really nice ones I would not have otherwise been able to enjoy.

In the end, for me, it comes down to it *has* to be someone else's responsibility after the animal leaves me.

Anything else is impossible and delusional anyway- people can tell you and usually by nature tend to always tell you what you want to hear and people with little experience regurgitate information all the time on the internet, yet apply it poorly in real life. Others with a little knowledge misinterpret it and misapply it while sounding like the most confident experienced experts in the world as they give out their advice on forums.

Others who are simply willing to follow the directions on a care sheet and who return to ask questions but start out knowing almost nothing can make some of the best homes for the animals.

So there you go. A little jumbled and rambling, but my honest thoughts on your topic of interest.

this depressed me a little, hate the thought of one of my grandchams not going to someone who tends to and care for it, despite the effort i konw im going to put into it.

 

[fluxlizard]

this depressed me a little, hate the thought of one of my grandchams not going to someone who tends to and care for it, despite the effort i konw im going to put into it.

Well, sorry to hear that.

It wasn't really intended in that way. I put a *lot* into caring for my own animals and can relate to your feelings about what I had to say though.

My main grudge is the permanent home problem- I hate to see animals get shuffled around over a lifetime. I know sometimes re-homing is necessary and the best option, but I feel it happens too often out of convenience or loss of interest rather than apocalyptic life event. And usually the same ones who found it "necessary" to re-home end up buying another animal they find a new "love" for within a few months time.

I guess for me, it's more about commitment to the animal than it is about "loving" them. Love can mean many different things. For me, the commitment aspect is more important than anthropomorphic love.

In the case of the melleri here on the forums- I do believe the animals were re-homed to good homes. But it leaves me a little concerned about how often they might be shuffled around in their lifetime, and makes me wonder about other animals I have sold in the past. I didn't have reports on the forums to keep me updated for any other animals I've sold, so leaves me wondering if the experience was unusual or normal.

But the flipside- nothing lifts my spirit in the same way as hearing from someone many months or years after selling them an animal and to hear that it is thriving and how happy they are with it. This does happen often and is a wonderful experience every time.

 

[Panther16]

I feel like that all the time. Thats was funny Yank what you said.
"Ask eco" haha especially the pics he posted of that guy was impressive!

 

[fluxlizard]

I should also say I'm a little hypocritical when it comes to some of this-

I know what it is like to have an apocalyptic life event. I was forced to sell off most of my collection several years ago in order to stay afloat financially at the time. Worst period of time in my life and really horrible.

Also I know what it is like to be anthropomorphic and really love some lizards that way. I had an iguana in particular that I mourned hard for years after it passed away and still miss it well over a decade later and I do feel we made a connection and bond of sorts.

Maybe today was a bad day to post LOL.