Question on trust building with my veiled cham

[Dexter.]

Dexter is about 4 months old now. We have been working to build trust after reading the blogs. He now associates my hand with food. A few times when he is at the cage door area and looking out, I will open the door and put my hand out. He will look everywhere on my hand for a bug. Sometimes he sticks his tongue to my hand looking for the bug that isn't there.

My question is this. I know he has a strong association of my hand=mealworm. Sometimes when he's out for weighing/cage cleaning, he will look at my hand like he is searching for bugs, but sometimes he looks like he just wants to bite me. He even slowly lowers his head down with his mouth open/gaping and rest his mouth on my hand (almost as if he's trying to decide if he should bite or to see my reaction?). What is this about? Is that normal behavior? I make no sudden moves and just hope he doesn't bite me (he has bitten me a few times before). He did this again today, except was still in his cage. He was at the door, I opened the door and slowly introduced my hand (he has gotten really good with me being all up in his cage and just watching me clean up without hissing/running away). He looked at my hand for a minute, looking for a bug. He struck with the tongue but I had nothing on my hand. Then he decided to put his front feet on my hand. This whole time I am still. He looks around my hand with his mouth open (more like to strike for food than gaping) and then puts his open mouth down on my hand as if he's deciding to bite or not. He did not bite, and when he realized there was no food, turned around and went back to his branch. The first time he ever bit me was like it was in slow motion. Almost like "watch what I'm about to do" attitude. I guess I'm just wondering about this laying his open mouth on my hand part.

Also, do I keep doing this? I have often enticed him out of the cage with a branch in my hand. But lately I've noticed him "run" down the branch towards my hand as if it was a snack or an enemy to strike, and so I'm not sure if I should keep doing the worm or not. Every time he comes out, stick or not, I give him a treat, so I know he associates me with treats now. I assume that's ok. I just don't know about the biting and the laying the mouth on me part.

 

[Beman]

Hey there. I am guessing when you talk about trust building and blogs you are referring to my blog? this one? https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/building-trust-with-your-chameleon.2396/

What you are describing sounds more like being defensive. Now what I found in building trust with food is that yes they associate your hands and you with something positive. However him coming out aggressive like that it sounds like there is more going on or it is just his personality. The problem with targeting you is that if you suddenly pull back you can damage the tongue. So I would not let him do that. And I would not let him take a bite while your trying to build trust. Veileds are pretty much all over the place with their personalities. One I had named Bane was like a velociraptor straight out of Jurassic park. I worked with him the same why I did Beman and while I could get him to understand my hand meant food there was very little trust I could build with him. He would chase me out of his cage and I had him in a 4 foot wide by 4 foot tall and 2ft deep. He had the biggest cage due to him being my most aggressive that I could not handle or take to the outdoor enclosure. But I had to wear gloves with him to check weights because he would always go for me and use intimidation to try to show he was the boss. I also had Bentley that was kinda in the middle of the personality range but he was much more tolerant than Bane was. Beman however was a totally different boy and had the best personality. Don't get me wrong I had to watch him because he would target me hoping for food in the hands. I just never let it happen due to the high risk of injury.

Can you tell me how many insects a day he gets and what types you are feeding? Also can you show me a picture of the enclosure and tell me how big it is?

 

[Dexter.]

Hey there. I am guessing when you talk about trust building and blogs you are referring to my blog? this one? https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/building-trust-with-your-chameleon.2396/

What you are describing sounds more like being defensive. Now what I found in building trust with food is that yes they associate your hands and you with something positive. However him coming out aggressive like that it sounds like there is more going on or it is just his personality. The problem with targeting you is that if you suddenly pull back you can damage the tongue. So I would not let him do that. And I would not let him take a bite while your trying to build trust. Veileds are pretty much all over the place with their personalities. One I had named Bane was like a velociraptor straight out of Jurassic park. I worked with him the same why I did Beman and while I could get him to understand my hand meant food there was very little trust I could build with him. He would chase me out of his cage and I had him in a 4 foot wide by 4 foot tall and 2ft deep. He had the biggest cage due to him being my most aggressive that I could not handle or take to the outdoor enclosure. But I had to wear gloves with him to check weights because he would always go for me and use intimidation to try to show he was the boss. I also had Bentley that was kinda in the middle of the personality range but he was much more tolerant than Bane was. Beman however was a totally different boy and had the best personality. Don't get me wrong I had to watch him because he would target me hoping for food in the hands. I just never let it happen due to the high risk of injury.

Can you tell me how many insects a day he gets and what types you are feeding? Also can you show me a picture of the enclosure and tell me how big it is?

Yes! That’s the blog. It’s very helpful, thank you!

I thought I read somewhere that when you put your hand in, go slow and if they gape just be patient and wait until they stop. Don’t go forward or pull back. Is that not wrong? This is why when he does these odd things with his mouth I have not pulled away. I know sudden movements are not good. He has only once bitten me quickly, but that was my fault as something brushed his back while I was walking by with him in my hand. Other than that, he is always slow to bite. He has only bitten me 3 times.

If this is his personality, I’m ok with it. I mean, I know I don’t have a choice, but I understand that not all veileds will be friendly and I accept whatever we can get to as trust goes. If he is just aggressive, when do you suggest I wear gloves? Should I pull away if he looks like he is going to bite? Right now he’s small and the bite doesn’t hurt, but I know that’ll change when he grows. Is using the stick ok to get him out? He has not yet come out any other way. Once he’s out I can usually get him to walk onto my hand, and he doesn’t try to bite then.

He eats a mix of crickets, dubias, and black soldier fly larvae. His treat is a mealworm. He gets 10 “for breakfast” and 10 “for dinner.” He is currently at best guess 4 months old (I’ve had him since 1 mo old), and his current enclosure is 2x2x36”. I know he needs a bigger one once grown. I’ll attach a picture. Thanks for a thorough reply, I appreciate all the advice and insight.