Question For The Pros

[reyesjoshuacruz]

I'm treating 2 juvy veiled rescues with MBD, Im dusting with a d3 free sup, and giving them natural california sun. What time of the day should I be feeding them dusted crix considering the best sun is between 10-2.

Answer I'm looking for.
A:it takes juvy veileds 5.234 hrs to strart processing cal when given as a dust on their prey, so i would feed dusted prey at blah blah blah am to line up with the sun they are getting.

or

The night before............lol

thanks guys

 

[Kent67]

Neither Exposure to natural sun will raise the d3 levels in the blood over time, not immediately. As long as they continue to receive UVB light the levels of d3 should stay relatively stable from day to night.

 

[reyesjoshuacruz]

i thought d3 just helped chams process cal when they are getting artificial uv rays?

So MBD cases need D3 right away to help process the cal? Because although with sup with no D3 overtime and nat sun they will process the right amount of cal to keep them healthy and happy and growing, it will take too long to begin helping and they need help right away. Am i correct in assuming then that the level of cal they process with nat sun and no D3 sup woudlnt help an MBD case even?

What combo should i be using then?????

1.)Powder sup, no d3
2.)powd with D3
3.)liquid cal
4.)liquid d3
------------------------
And
1.)nat sun light
2.)uvb tube
3.)uva bulb

Thanks Again

 

[Kent67]

Ok, first off, I forgot to mention it's really awesome that you've rescued these guys and you're doing what you can.

Chams need vitamin d3 (just like we do) to properly metabolize calcium. Animals can get d3 dietarily or by exposure to UVB rays which causes the body to synethesize it. My understanding is that just a couple hours of natural unfiltered sunlight a day is more than enough to maintain optimum levels of d3 in the blood. But, because it is winter and the sun is less intense, I would say the more sun the better so your 4 hours a day is probably more like it.

Not knowing whether your vet wants to use the drug whose name I can't think of, to draw calcium back into the bones, I would start with as much sun as possible but still supplementing with dietary d3 a couple times a week. The main thing is to have enough d3 in the blood to make sure no further damage is done, at least.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

I completely agree with Kent's assesment.

-Brad

 

[Justin Carl]

i would use a combination of cacium with D3 once a week and no D3 twice a week. The best time of the day to sun is between 10-2. If they have a severe case of MBD i would give them natural sun light and artificial. also when they arent on calium i would supplement with a good vitamin.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

I don't know what calcium the vet has prescribed.
However, I would not be afraid to dust a % of the feeders(1/4 to 1/3 of the number offered) daily with calcium with no D3, and calcium with D3 once a week.
In combination with the calcium from the vet and the real sun ... there's not much more you can do.

-Brad

 

[reyesjoshuacruz]

Couldnt resist

just took some pics

 

[kinyonga]

Look at those poor little chameleons! I hope you can help them!

The idea is to increase availability and absorption of calcium into the blood and then draw it back into the bones. This will mean that the chameleon needs to have enough D3 either produced from exposure to UVB or sunlight and/or from supplements to be able to use the calcium. The problem comes with figuring out how much is enough regarding supplements. All I can say is that any chameleons that I have had over the years that I have treated for MBD have not been given extra D3 from supplements...just extra calcium. I am not a vet...this information comes from personal experience and from what I have read and learned from my vets.

Calcium injections can be given by a vet and then when the calcium levels are high enough in the blood, an injection of calcitonin can be given which draws the calcium back into the bones quickly.

Here's a site that talks about it...
"TREATMENT AND DIAGNOSIS
Treatment for MBD in chameleons must address several issues. The first is to correct proper nutrition. A varied diet of gut-loaded insects that are dusted regularly with calcium, especially for hatchlings and juveniles, is extremely important. Avoid biasing the diet with insects with a poor Ca ratio. Additionally, add appropriate UV lighting, and correct husbandry practices.

http://www.adcham.com/html/veterinary/mbd-fractures-kramer.html
Treatment (under a veterinarian's supervision) generally involves administering medications which may include oral or injectable calcium, injectable vitamin D3, and/or calcitonin. Symptoms and specific medical problems will need to be addressed on a case-by-case basis, and may include procedures such as tube-feeding, correction of dehydration, or fracture stabilization. Be very careful handling patients with MBD as their bones are very fragile and subject to further injury if mishandled. Radiographs (X-rays) are useful to assess bone density and confirm suspicion of MBD, and measuring blood calcium and phosphorus levels can also aid diagnosis and help guide therapy. Those chameleons that recover from MBD and regain strong solid bones will probably still retain some hint of bumps or bends in the legs, which represent healed fractures. These animals can however go on to lead good quality lives. Sometimes other skeletal abnormalities may persist including general stunting, shortening of the mandible or maxilla, and spinal deviations. In general, MBD is a treatable disease if diagnosed and treated early."