Pygmy on a Ficus

[smashtoad]

A lot of people don't use uvb on pygmy chameleons.

To the OP: Nice tongue shot! What kind of camera and glass are you using if you don't mind me asking.

Jessica...it is a Canon 50D, and the glass is a 100mm Macro which I am in love with. Also using a 430EX flash. Getting this shot perfect is gonna take some planning...but I'll get it eventually. I took three such shots this day, and two times he pushed his tongue out like 1/4" then withdrew it because the cricket started moving. The timing is gonna be real hit and miss, then add in the fact that he will only eat two or three crickets at each attempt...it's gonna be a challenge to get one that is wall worthy.

 

[jessica]

Jessica...it is a Canon 50D, and the glass is a 100mm Macro which I am in love with. Also using a 430EX flash. Getting this shot perfect is gonna take some planning...but I'll get it eventually. I took three such shots this day, and two times he pushed his tongue out like 1/4" then withdrew it because the cricket started moving. The timing is gonna be real hit and miss, then add in the fact that he will only eat two or three crickets at each attempt...it's gonna be a challenge to get one that is wall worthy.

Nice! The tongue shot is a hard one to get especially on a small target like a pygmy Good luck I will be looking forward to seeing the end results!

 

[Maurer3D]

Awesome setup. The only thing I would change is put it into a bigger pot that is at least twice as big around, to give him/her some movement room on the ground and also make sure there is a 2 or 3 inch lip so it can't climb out.

Amazing job getting that picture with it catching a fly/cricket....

 

[Fool]

A bush is an unnatural environment for a small chameleon...that's pretty funny...are you serious?


A 20" ficus just may qualify as a small plant...I'm just going out on a limb here (NPI).


Who said he wasn't moving? He moves all over the place...this plant wouldn't fit in a 20H, therefore...it is giving him more space than a 20H would.


I don't even know what this means...but if you are suggesting that he'll fail to thrive because he can't walk on the ground...he'll have to show me that, because I don't believe it. My guess is that pygmy chams come to the ground to eat (when necessary), lay eggs...and not much else.

But hey, thanks anyway. I'll let you how the pygmy does.

1. I think what she meant by that pygmys are ground dwellers that mostly live on small plants and bushes.
2 you would have seen she said tree and your plant is not a "bush" its a bonzai tree, the thing is they go for length rather than height that's why she said 20height if you did research youd know that length is more recommended for them as opposed to height like veiled chams are.
3. That is why you didnt understand the last part ill give you a link to what she meant

http://www.chameleonnews.com/05JunRouthouska.html


and about the thing of not moving it was just a misunderstanding of this statement "he doesn't act at all like there is ant desire to leave" . I'm glad your tree is working for your cham but dont be to quick to question the members that are just trying to help you some of them have kept pets for a long time I myself learned that once. were just trying to help welcome to the forums and enjoy your stay. Hope you and you enjoy your new buddy and maybe get more chams in the future.

 

[smashtoad]

1. I think what she meant by that pygmys are ground dwellers that mostly live on small plants and bushes.
2 you would have seen she said tree and your plant is not a "bush" its a bonzai tree, the thing is they go for length rather than height that's why she said 20height if you did research youd know that length is more recommended for them as opposed to height like veiled chams are.
3. That is why you didnt understand the last part ill give you a link to what she meant

http://www.chameleonnews.com/05JunRouthouska.html


and about the thing of not moving it was just a misunderstanding of this statement "he doesn't act at all like there is ant desire to leave" . I'm glad your tree is working for your cham but dont be to quick to question the members that are just trying to help you some of them have kept pets for a long time I myself learned that once. were just trying to help welcome to the forums and enjoy your stay. Hope you and you enjoy your new buddy and maybe get more chams in the future.

Thanks for the advice...I skimmed it long enough to find this:
"I prefer "tall" aquariums (or something around 16"/17" high) especially for Rhampholeon brevicaudatus. My group tends to spend their time in the foliage/branches as opposed to being on the ground, so taller plants are preferred and therefore a taller enclosure."

I am a member of lots of forums, and I have kept herps for lots of years, since like 1974. I know chams are extremely specialized animals, which is why I started with brevs rather than acuminatus, viridis, or temporalis. I wanted to get my feet wet first.

I am not trying to be rude, and I do not want to get off on the wrong foot on this forum. I am just calling it like I see it. I will need help, and I know this is the place to get it. These forums are amazing sources of hands-on knowledge.

They are also places where kids who have kept one white's tree frog, a ball python, and a calyptratus for six months are suddenly ready to give advice to people who have forgotten more about animals than they themselves will ever know. I wasn't "questioning" her advice...I was informing her that her advice was wrong...there is a difference.

It's kind of like forming an argument, then using a supporting document that doesn't necessarily support your argument...like you just did. My ficus is three times the size of the scheff in that tank. Last night with a red light I couldn't even find the little dude, and gave up.

The bottom line is this: If we don't correct bad advice, or ill-informed comments, young herpers can read it and might know no different. This helps no one...not the least of which are the animals. There is a ton of bad herp info out there, and I have no desire to be a part of its disimination. I am here to respectfully ask for help and advice from chameleon experts. So by responding in the manner I have, hopefully will keep the "self-described" experts from trying to help me, and get more help from the seasoned vets.

Like I said earlier in this thread...there are very few Steve Irwins in this world...but there are a buttload of Dr. Brady Bahrs.

I want advice from The Crocodile Hunter, not the guy who wades into a cave in the Phillipines through 4ft deep liquified guano, finds a 12ft retic, and grabs it...only to get bitten on the thigh and proceed to scream like a 13 year old girl watching The Ring, like Bahr did...have you seen that? HIGHlarious and sad at the same time.

I hope you all have a Merry Christmas.

 

[Fool]

Thanks for the advice...I skimmed it long enough to find this:
"I prefer "tall" aquariums (or something around 16"/17" high) especially for Rhampholeon brevicaudatus. My group tends to spend their time in the foliage/branches as opposed to being on the ground, so taller plants are preferred and therefore a taller enclosure."

I am a member of lots of forums, and I have kept herps for lots of years, since like 1974. I know chams are extremely specialized animals, which is why I started with brevs rather than acuminatus, viridis, or temporalis. I wanted to get my feet wet first.

I am not trying to be rude, and I do not want to get off on the wrong foot on this forum. I am just calling it like I see it. I will need help, and I know this is the place to get it. These forums are amazing sources of hands-on knowledge.

They are also places where kids who have kept one white's tree frog, a ball python, and a calyptratus for six months are suddenly ready to give advice to people who have forgotten more about animals than they themselves will ever know. I wasn't "questioning" her advice...I was informing her that her advice was wrong...there is a difference.

It's kind of like forming an argument, then using a supporting document that doesn't necessarily support your argument...like you just did. My ficus is three times the size of the scheff in that tank. Last night with a red light I couldn't even find the little dude, and gave up.

The bottom line is this: If we don't correct bad advice, or ill-informed comments, young herpers can read it and might know no different. This helps no one...not the least of which are the animals. There is a ton of bad herp info out there, and I have no desire to be a part of its disimination. I am here to respectfully ask for help and advice from chameleon experts. So by responding in the manner I have, hopefully will keep the "self-described" experts from trying to help me, and get more help from the seasoned vets.

Like I said earlier in this thread...there are very few Steve Irwins in this world...but there are a buttload of Dr. Brady Bahrs.

I want advice from The Crocodile Hunter, not the guy who wades into a cave in the Phillipines through 4ft deep liquified guano, finds a 12ft retic, and grabs it...only to get bitten on the thigh and proceed to scream like a 13 year old girl watching The Ring, like Bahr did...have you seen that? HIGHlarious and sad at the same time.

I hope you all have a Merry Christmas.

Her advice was wrong how so? How all the things I stated were fact that explain how she was correct. The link I gave you a recommended by a top breeder on these forums and is a good source of info it backs up my statements by showing you what she was talking about so she is not wrong your both correct. The thing is just like you complain about kids we see people that come on that do what you do and the cham dies. The way your rasing your cham isnt the tradional way. Does it make it wrong no but her advice isnt wrongf Fyi its the recommended way to raise them you can do what you want but the Link I posted was supporting her view of info so it was supportive in that sense because it gives a overview of their regular setup I didnt post that link to say you were wrong but to support her statments your both correct. Also that Steve Erwin thing is cheesy not everyone is Steve Erwin, to expect everyone to be a professional like that just dumb and like you said their a few Steve Erwins in this world but a buttload of Dr. Brady Bahrbs which does that make you then? As for that quote it still dosent change the fact that longer is recommended his aquarium in there is long he just states that he prefers it to be high a preference not fact so that quote is meaningless.

 

[Fool]

you want a quote from a Steve Erwin here it is by R. D. Bartlett

his book "Chameleon Everything about purchase, Care, Nutrition, and Breeding"

Here it is in the section on pygmy Leaf Chameleons

The minima group seems to be entirely terrestrial in habit

which means ground dwellers they might go on trees but in nature they mostly inhabit the ground merry Christmas.

 

[pssh]

Fool, you realize that we don't keep minima in the US (or even in other countries from what I understand.) minima aren't even from the same genus as brevs anyways. I've told you before, please stop spreading inaccurate information and/or believing that there is only one way to keep chameleons. You certainly aren't making us younger folk on the forum look any better.

I find that my brevs (except one) never really climb higher than 8 or so inches above the ground. They will travel close to the ground on twigs and other plants, but I don't usually see them on the actual ground. I would make sure to give the Pygmy some twigs and what not at the base of the plant in case he wants to be lower, but still feel secure.

 

[Chris Anderson]

It is not possibly to generalize the habitat preference of all "pygmy chameleons" as they range from almost entirely terrestrial to almost entirely arboreal. The "minima group" mentioned by Fool's quote from Bartlett's book is actually not closely related to Rieppeleon. They are a Malagasy species from the genus Brookesia and vary considerably in their morphology, behavior and habitat preference.

Many "pygmy chameleons", including Rieppeleon brevicaudatus do tend to occupy the lowest vegetation strata but this is not limited the the forest floor. Typically this species spends the day at a fairly low height in the vegetation searching for food and at night will climb to slightly higher heights. This species is known to roost up to 1.5 meters high but is typically found less than 50cm above the ground. They are also known to bask in open sun patches on the ground.

As long as care is taken to make sure proper humidity and lighting is maintained, the only danger I see with this husbandry arrangement is the possibility of the chameleon walking off. While it may not show any sign of being interested in doing so, it only takes once and with a chameleon this size, I would be concerned about its safety if some measure to prevent it from going anywhere is not implemented. This could be as simple as placing the plant in the center of a sweater box large enough that it could not get out if it fell from a peripheral branch but perhaps building an open air stand where the plant could be planted into a recessed bin would be more visually appealing.

Chris

 

[Fool]

Fool, you realize that we don't keep minima in the US (or even in other countries from what I understand.) minima aren't even from the same genus as brevs anyways. I've told you before, please stop spreading inaccurate information and/or believing that there is only one way to keep chameleons. You certainly aren't making us younger folk on the forum look any better.

I find that my brevs (except one) never really climb higher than 8 or so inches above the ground. They will travel close to the ground on twigs and other plants, but I don't usually see them on the actual ground. I would make sure to give the Pygmy some twigs and what not at the base of the plant in case he wants to be lower, but still feel secure.

you know what pssh these chameleons dont go higher than 3 feet and im sure about that and i am ok with mulitple housing ideas stop assuming im not I never said I wasent please point out where I made that comment please do so. I d like to see you do that thanks. and in that same book it says 35 cm to 45 cm so im not pulling shit out of my ass.

For forest-floor chameleons such as the little leaf chameleons(genera Brookiesia and Rhampholeon), and for the common chameleon(the most terrestrial member of the genus Chamaeleo) , the cage height can be lessened somewhat. for these species a height of 12 to 18 inches (35cm-45cm) will suffice

From the book If your using a uvb light the tallest point will have to be 6 inches from the cham so that said the tallest point would have to be like 12 inches to 15 so it dosent get burned anything taller isn't recommended

 

[Chris Anderson]

Fool,

I would not consider the book you're using as a reliable source for much more than the most basic of information on a couple topics and pictures of species that aren't in the trade any longer. It was more information than had been available in a single source 15 years ago when it was published but it was quickly out done and does not hold a candle to the sources published since. Please read my post above. You can not accurately generalize the habitat preference and needs of all "pygmy chameleons". The information I've posted above is based on considerably more reliable sources and personal experience.

Chris

 

[Fool]

Fool,

I would not consider the book you're using as a reliable source for much more than the most basic of information on a couple topics and pictures of species that aren't in the trade any longer. It was more information than had been available in a single source 15 years ago when it was published but it was quickly out done and does not hold a candle to the sources published since. Please read my post above. You can not accurately generalize the habitat preference and needs of all "pygmy chameleons". The information I've posted above is based on considerably more reliable sources and personal experience.

Chris

Well the book looks new to me I guess its not but if im posting misinformed information its not my fault if they are still publishing a old book from 15 years ago It was really helpful for me and it has worked for me so far why I like it. Thanks chris which book would you consider than for a more up to date choice?

 

[Chris Anderson]

Fool,

Just because a book is published does not make it a reliable source. The version you have is a 2005 reprint of the original 1995 book with some minimal updates (some new photos, etc.). If you are interested in reliable information on chameleons, there are a number of other books I would recommend but rarely is regurgitation of information without actual understanding of the content itself of benefit to anyone.

Chris

 

[Fool]

Fool,

Just because a book is published does not make it a reliable source. The version you have is a 2005 reprint of the original 1995 book with some minimal updates (some new photos, etc.). If you are interested in reliable information on chameleons, there are a number of other books I would recommend but rarely is regurgitation of information without actual understanding of the content itself of benefit to anyone.

Chris

The only reason I quoted that book was to say that lisa was not wrong to let him know that there is another way people do it and that she does know what she was talking about. The information the book has good info with some of the stuff members post on here so I don't think its not reliable. the parts I quoted was in the pygmy chameleon section and it says common chameleon so its not my fualt just ignorance sry if you dont want to tell me a book chris thanks for the info earlier though I wish I could understand them are they scientific books?

 

[Chris Anderson]

Fool,

When you edit your posts quickly enough, it doesn't show an edit tag at the bottom of your post but that doesn't mean other people didn't already read your post and start replying. You didn't have your request for what were good books in your last post until after I had started replying. If you're going to edit your posts after you post them, don't play the "if you don't want to tell me a book" line with me.

In addition to primary research articles in peer reviewed journals and articles published in the Chameleon Information Network or on the Chameleons! Online E-Zine, here are a few more reliable books:

Davison, L. J. (1997). Chameleons: Their Care and Breeding. Handcock House Publishers, Blaine, Washington.
Ferguson, G. W., Murphy, J. B., Ramanamanjato, J.-B. and Raselimanana. (2004). The Panther Chameleon: Color Variation, Natural History, Conservation, and Captive Management. Krieger Publishing Company, Malabar, Florida.
Glaw, F. and Vences, M. (2007). A Field Guide to the Amphibians and Reptiles of Madagascar (Third Edition). Vences & Glaw Verlags GbR, Köln, Germany.
Nečas, P. (2004). Chameleons: Nature’s Hidden Jewels (2nd Revised and Updated Edition). Edition Chimaira, Frankfurt am Main, Germany.
Nečas, P. and Schmidt, W. (2004). Stump-tailed Chameleons: Miniature Dragons of the Rainforest. Edition Chimaira, Frankfurt am Main, Germany.
Spawls, S., Howell, K., Drewes, R. and Ashe, J. (2002). A Field Guide to the Reptiles of East Africa. Academic Press, San Diego, California.
Tolley, K. and Burger, M. (2007). Chameleons of Southern Africa. Struik Publishers, Cape Town, South Africa.
Tilbury, C. (2010). Chameleons of Africa: An Atlas, Including the Chameleons of Europe, the Middle East and Asia. Edition Chimaira, Frankfurt am Main, Germany.

For future reference, its never a good idea to start giving information you don't know anything about. Pleading ignorance after the fact doesn't excuse blindly regurgitating things you don't otherwise know anything about.

Chris

 

[Fool]

Fool,

When you edit your posts quickly enough, it doesn't show an edit tag at the bottom of your post but that doesn't mean other people didn't already read your post and start replying. You didn't have your request for what were good books in your last post until after I had started replying. If you're going to edit your posts after you post them, don't play the "if you don't want to tell me a book" line with me.

Chris

yea I noticed that ill probably make new posts then as opposed to just editing them also im not doing that intentionally. Thanks for the books I think I might get some and if their are word I dont understand ill see if I can use a dictionary. I just quoted a book that seemed reliable I dont think everyone checks the published dates on their books I'm sure you never did at one point in your life so excuse me for being human but I for one feel fine that I made a mistake and see nothing wrong with it if you dont like it thats fine I can care less.

 

[pssh]

He's not getting mad at you. He's telling you that its not a good idea to spout information that you don't understand. While even the best of us do it/have done it at one point, its best to just own up to it. You can tell yourself it's not your fault, but you didn't check the credibility of the book or other references. You cannot learn everything about one subject from one source of information. It would be like writing a paper and only using wikipedia to find information. It's not exactly credible, nor is it smart to think that that single source is 100% correct. When other more experienced members say something that does not follow your understanding of what you should be/have done/are doing then it may be worth your while to do a little research on the subject. While not everything other members post is reliable, you can't just assume that you are right and they are wrong. You learn when you accept other peoples methods and research it.