Pygmy Cham Help

[JamesD]

Hi guys, I need some help with one of my pygmies. First of all, I'll post all the info. you need:

Cage Info:
Cage Type; I am using the 30x30x45 Exo-Terra Glass Terrarium.

Lighting; 25W spot lamp which lights up the top of the viv but provides dappled shade on the viv floor. This is on for 12 hours a day (8am-8pm).

Temperature; The basking spot is 76F and the viv floor is 72F. These temps drop by around 5F over night and I'm measuring them using a digital thermometer (with probe).

Humidity; Averages at around 75% and rises to over 90% just after a spray (I spray at least twice a day, sometimes 3 times). This is measured with a digital hygrometer.

Plants; I am using live plants. I have one Ficus which is as tall as the viv and one smaller ficus which is bushy and provides plenty of ground cover. There are also several clumps of live moss to increase humidity.

Location; The viv is not near any fans or anything and is not in a high traffic area. It is approx. 5ft off the floor.

Chameleon Info:
The Chameleon; 10 month old CB male Rhampholeon uluguruensis which I have had for around 6 weeks now. He is housed with a 9 month old CB female who appears to be the picture of health.

Handling; Handle once or twice a week to check him over for any health concerns

Feeding; I am currently feeding them on crickets that are around 3mm in length. They are gutloaded with a premade formula and have carrot slices for moisture. I am feeding them every other day and I bowl feed so that there are none loose in the viv at night to bother them.

Supplements; I am using calypso calcium carbonate and nutrobol to dust the crickets. I mix it 3:1 (calypso:nutrobol) and am going to dust their food once a week.

Watering; I mist them with filtered water 2-3 times a day. I do this until there are water droplets on most of the leaves (although lighter in the evening) and I have seen them both drink after most sprays.

Fecal Description; Their faeces is normal in colour, well formed and the uric acid granule is white and not too large.

History; He has been eating and drinking as normal and I saw him eat 3 crickets yesterday. He has never been particularly active, but pygmies never are so I had no concern over that.

Current Problem; This morning when I went to spray them, he was hanging upside down from a branch by only one foot. When I disturbed him, he was very lethargic and slow to move and took a while to open his eyes (he just wasn't right). I have put him on one of the thin branches and he is just sitting there, not moving at all. Normally he will move up into the large ficus during the day, but he is just sitting there on a bare branch.
I'm just looking for some advice on what I should be doing right now. There is one herp vet in my area who has no experience with chameleons, let alone pygmies so I am reserved to taking him to the vets. If it is a must, I will take him, but I don't want him treated incorrectly through the vets inexperience.
Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated

 

[JamesD]

Just a little update...
He is still with us and is sitting in the ficus (has been for the last 6 hours or so). He still seems very lethargic, but is moving his eyes around occassionally. I really hope he pulls through, but speaking to the breeder I got him from, who has A LOT of experience with pygmies I think it's doubtful
If anyone has any advice, I'm all ears!

 

[JamesD]

Well the lights have been turned off for the night. He actually moved to a different perch this evening so still has some fight left in him! I guess I'll have to see what tomorrow brings. I'm at work most of the day so I won't be able to check him until around 6pm.
I'll update you all then but in the mean time, I'd really appreciate anyones experiences. Is there something I could have done to prevent this? Is it just something that happens occassionally? I hope that he does get better and that this isn't my fault

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

Sorry to hear about your pygmy. I'm really just writing to give you acknowledgement of your situation. We breed pygmies, but not the species you are concerned about. Ours do have days when they move very little. It's normal for ours, but may not be for yours. I just don't know.

Just curious. At close examination does he have any swelling about the lips or face?

 

[JamesD]

Sorry to hear about your pygmy. I'm really just writing to give you acknowledgement of your situation. We breed pygmies, but not the species you are concerned about. Ours do have days when they move very little. It's normal for ours, but may not be for yours. I just don't know.

Just curious. At close examination does he have any swelling about the lips or face?

Thanks for your reply
I know that it is usual for pygmies to be relatively sedentary, but this one just didn't seem 'right' if that makes sense? He will normally sit in one place for most of the day, but usually reacts quite quickly to being disturbed. He seemed a little better before lights out, but I don't wwant to start getting excited over nothing and end up being more disappointed than I need to be.
I did have a look at him close up and there was nothing out of the ordinary in his appearance other than the lethargy. Was there something in particular you were thinking of?
I'll let you know what happens....

 

[annette]

R. ulugurensis.

James
I did not see your R. ulugurensis (is it a CB ulugurensis?, sorry to ask you that), but I have a lot of pygm.
From reading your description, I tell you my experience commenting on 3 things.

I never check them out as much as you do. They are very stress sensitive. I went to screen cage to have airing which is very crutial to them.
Humididty is then of course a problem. Mister?. feed them fruit flies, D. hydei too.

Your terrarium is in my opinion too large. Sounds funny, but since they barely move and sit on a brench waiting the food comes by, I made bad experience with large tanks. I kept mine in a 10 gallon tanks, now screencage.

Hope it helps.

Annette

 

[JamesD]

James
I did not see your R. ulugurensis (is it a CB ulugurensis?, sorry to ask you that), but I have a lot of pygm.
From reading your description, I tell you my experience commenting on 3 things.

I never check them out as much as you do. They are very stress sensitive. I went to screen cage to have airing which is very crutial to them.
Humididty is then of course a problem. Mister?. feed them fruit flies, D. hydei too.

Your terrarium is in my opinion too large. Sounds funny, but since they barely move and sit on a brench waiting the food comes by, I made bad experience with large tanks. I kept mine in a 10 gallon tanks, now screencage.

Hope it helps.

Annette

Hello Annette

Yes, they are CB....the male is around 10 months old.

I realise they are stress sensitive, but they are out of their viv for less than 5 minutes at a time. Just enough for me to give them a quick glance over and spot anything that's obviously wrong. Maybe I'm just trying to be over cautious as I'm new to them.....I'll tone it down a little and make it once every couple of weeks.

I'm not sure where abouts in the world you are, but every pygmy keeper in the UK I've spoken to keeps them in glass vivs (mostly the exo-terras). They have a mesh lid which allows air exchange, but also keeps humidity up high.

When you say to feed them fruit flies, are you saying not to feed them crickets? All the others seem to be doing great on crickets, and I'd much rather keep those than FFs!

What kind of bad experiences have you had with larger vivs? I thought mine was a little on the small side to be honest! Some other keepers I've spoken to will keep pairs in 12" cubes, but I wouldn't feel comfortable providing them with such little space. The viv is quite densely planted so they should feel secure, and they are bowl fed so finding food isn't an issue either.

 

[JamesD]

Unfortunately, the little one died some time in the night
I don't think it was anything that I did as I have 4 other healthy pygmies, but it doesn't stop me feeling awful about it!

 

[Julirs]

Sometimes you will just never know the reason that they die. Small, early breeding, fast developing, high mortality rate-all part of nature's plan sometimes. Your cage set up sounds fine. I would drop the basking spot temp just a bit, and not mix calcium and viamin together(if nutrobal is a vite), and reduce inspection handling to once a month.

 

[JamesD]

Sometimes you will just never know the reason that they die. Small, early breeding, fast developing, high mortality rate-all part of nature's plan sometimes. Your cage set up sounds fine. I would drop the basking spot temp just a bit, and not mix calcium and viamin together(if nutrobal is a vite), and reduce inspection handling to once a month.

Thanks
I've already decreased the basking spot by a few degrees as I noticed that they weren't spending much time under it during the day....only around an hour or so in the morning. I'll take on board every thing else you've said too
The breeder has kindly offered to send me a new male free of charge as he agrees my setup was fine and that he may have just been a weak individual. I'm very impressed with this as I have had them over 5 weeks now, and normally (in this country at least) you'll get a weeks guarantee at most. It makes me glad to know that there are people out there that care as much about their customers as they do their animals!