Purchased WC Chameleons?

[Brad]

Have you ever purchased a wild caught chameleon? Do you have any plans to do so in the future? Chameleon Forums believes that only expert keepers should consider purchasing a wild caught chameleon. They require exacting care to acclimate to captivity and a considerable amount of time and expense as well.

 

[reptoman]

Cool. I get to be the first vote in a new poll.
Wc are definitely not recommended if you can get what you are wanting as cb. Jmo

 

[Dez]

I have purchased WCs in the past and they never do well for me.

 

[xxzmmorexx]

I just think that captive bred is the way to go, unless maybe you are helping a wild one back on its feet or something. They are used to being a completely different enviroment as opposed to a captive bred. No matter how well you imitate it, I feel they will know the difference. Thats just my thoughts!

 

[chameleoman]

WOOOOOO i made 4th post!!!

 

[DanSB]

I believe wild caught chameleons (exotic pets in general really) should only be purchased by those who are doing so for the express reason to breed them in captivity and help with a captive population.

A wild caught animal is more expensive if you intend to keep them alive and will very seldom be as good of a pet as a captive bred specimen. I've never heard of a wild caught animal without parasite issues and stress issues will likely persist for quite awhile never be as fully acclimated to humans as those born around humans.

If you are trying to establish a captive population or supplement the gene pool of an existing captive population to sustain it's health you are helping the species more than hurting by hopefully decreasing the demand from the pet-trade on the wild populations and increasing awareness of the species increasing the chances people will support efforts to conserve the habitat of the wild species.

 

[Chameleons Canada]

Have you ever purchased a wild caught chameleon? Do you have any plans to do so in the future? Chameleon Forums believes that only expert keepers should consider purchasing a wild caught chameleon. They require exacting care to acclimate to captivity and a considerable amount of time and expense as well.

So I guess this question is referring to just landed animals, 100% agreed; we have another kind of WC though, long term captive WC. As an importer, I keep many animals with me and once they are stablished, dewormed, etc. I decide to sell them. My clients have no problem with those.

 

[Chameleonmaster]

I have purchased wc animals (3) one of them was eggbound when I received her and died, but my other 2 have both been treated for parasites and doing well. I may buy another wc animal but only to get another female(s) to replace the one that passed away. I think that no new person to chameleons should buy wc animals because I felt like I was in way over my head on these last couple.

 

[imcurt]

I dont keep,buy or sale Wild Caught Chameleons.............I understand some are needed to introduce fresh unrelated bloodlines.For me i feel its not right to stick a wild animal in a cage. Captive hatched chameleons dont have to go threw any stressful ajustment to living in a cage.

 

[Tay And A]

All great points

You all make very great points. I have one wc from chameleon company (Jim). Fiona is doing great. We've had her for a month and she may already be pregnant from the wild or possibly from our friends wc Phoenix. We shall see though. She's had no problems so far! (Fingers crossed!)

 

[Mmcbain1]

I try and catch as many WC chams as possible because Florida wildlife is trying to eradicate an established population here. I currently have 9 WC oustelets and all are well. As far as importing them to the states well it was necessary at one point thats why we all have chams. But I would like to see it kept at a minimum.

 

[mphelps]

The availability of cheap WC chameleons has not given hobbyists adequate motivation to breed some of the most interesting species. I prefer montane species (quads, montiums, cristatus, various jacksons subspecies), but the number of people breeding these species is not large. Many of these very breedable species will disappear from the hobby, or nearly so, before we get captive breeding established. It will be a tragedy if quads are not established in the hobby after more than 20 years of being imported from the wild in large numbers.

I purchase WC chameleons, because, for the species I am most interested in keeping, WC animals are often the only ones available. But I never purchase individual WC chameleons. If I purchase anything WC, I must purchase at least one pair and work hard at breeding them.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

I normally say look to buy captive bred first. However there are some pluses to buying wild caught chameleons and when importing wild caught chameleons if done I think it should be done conservatively. Most of the animals in the hobby coming ideally from captive bred animals which I know is not always possible. The pluses of buying wild caught chameleons are

1) Wild Caught chameleons will prevent genetic bottlenecks in captive populations (hobby population)
2) Creates a much needed business/economy in third world Madagascar and African Countries
3) Places a value or worth with the locals in the area where the chameleons are from (if they are allowed to be exported in conservative numbers) that will make locals reluctant to destroy or kill chameleons.

all these can be important tools to conserve chameleons long term in the wild that the chameleon keeping hobby that if supplemented with conservative amounts of wild caught chameleons theoretically could contribute too. However I still say look for captive bred first especially if your just starting out with the hobby.

Jeremy

 

[DanSB]

3) Places a value or worth with the locals in the area where the chameleons are from (if they are allowed to be exported in conservative numbers)

This makes me wonder... could a group of real chameleon enthusiasts work directly with a native population, offer fair prices (ie not pennies on the dollar I assume most importers pay) and really teach a group proper healthy capture, holding, and transport techniques?

This would increase the value to the locals and improve the health and quality of imported specimens... "Win win!"

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

This makes me wonder... could a group of real chameleon enthusiasts work directly with a native population, offer fair prices (ie not pennies on the dollar I assume most importers pay) and really teach a group proper healthy capture, holding, and transport techniques?

This would increase the value to the locals and improve the health and quality of imported specimens... "Win win!"

A grass roots program such as the Chameleons Specialist Group or something similar that is a possibility of course. For me with an agriculture background I would go the chameleon ranching route. Take someone local to Madagascar or Africa with a local university education (preferably biology diploma or something related) and teach them about chameleon ranching if possible. That would be option number one for me. There are a couple technique that theoretically could work though. If they are not doing kids play of course they could charge a professional fee. It has to has to be cost effective though. However if the chameleons come in perfect to there final destination people may want to pay top dollar and not go through the problems of buying ten bad animals just to have two breeders.

 

[Olimpia]

Since Meller's are my interest and priority right now I have had to buy WC individuals, with unfortunately poor results. I will, however, see myself purchasing WC again in an attempt to add more individuals to my group. As everyone more or less knows, melleri are surprisingly difficult to find in any form, CB or otherwise, so typically WC is the only option.

I am working on setting up a much more suitable environment for WC individuals in my new home and feel as though I should have much more success in the future if I were to try again - Having an environment (possibly free range or huge cage) set up outside should make the transition into captivity much less traumatic. At least, the rehab work of Dr. Alfonso has certainly shown this to be the case. I have almost a decade of experience rehabilitating wild animals, I'm just finally equipped to put it into practice with chameleons. So wish me luck!

 

[thephotoprincess]

I currently have 12 WC mellleri. They are all healthy and social with each other as well as people. We also have 2 oustalets - one is WC.

I have found that where you get them matters. Some people/places care for them better prior to selling them while others do very little to ensure long term sucess, just wanting a quick turnaround on them.

That said, I've only lost 1 recent import melleri and 1 recent import oustalets (she was eggbound and emaciated when I got her.) I lost 3 other LTC melleri that I acquired in very poor condition (infections/emaciated/dehydrated) due to poor care by the owners. While I hate losing any, I did learn a lot from them that has helped me care for other "rescues."

My goal is to breed the colony I have and work with other melleri keepers/breeders to establish a sustainable CB group. Unfortunately, many people seem to not stay with melleri long term and they are rather slow to breed ...

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

I currently have 12 WC mellleri. They are all healthy and social with each other as well as people. We also have 2 oustalets - one is WC.

I have found that where you get them matters. Some people/places care for them better prior to selling them while others do very little to ensure long term sucess, just wanting a quick turnaround on them.

That said, I've only lost 1 recent import melleri and 1 recent import oustalets (she was eggbound and emaciated when I got her.) I lost 3 other LTC melleri that I acquired in very poor condition (infections/emaciated/dehydrated) due to poor care by the owners. While I hate losing any, I did learn a lot from them that has helped me care for other "rescues."

My goal is to breed the colony I have and work with other melleri keepers/breeders to establish a sustainable CB group. Unfortunately, many people seem to not stay with melleri long term and they are rather slow to breed ...

Great job with your Wild Caught Melleri. Good point too it is definitely a skill and important to locate what importers actually take the time to acclimate their chameleons to the best of their capabilities before they offer them for sale to their customers. Not sure if I'm allowed to chat about this however feedback about importers and retailers of who sell wild caught animals is a great way to hear about who properly show TLC and tack care of their WC animals before they put them up for sale.

 

[thephotoprincess]

Great job with your Wild Caught Melleri. Good point too it is definitely a skill and important to locate what importers actually take the time to acclimate their chameleons to the best of their capabilities before they offer them for sale to their customers. Not sure if I'm allowed to chat about this however feedback about importers and retailers of who sell wild caught animals is a great way to hear about who properly show TLC and tack care of their WC animals before they put them up for sale.

Thank you. And yes, further discussion about importers and retailers would be beneficial.

 

[leedragon]

I am quite for the opposite , if the possibility of releasing captive bred animals in nature, some species are in dangerous in nature because of deforestation or over hunting, that wold do some good for the species, better than sale animals on sale prices and end up in bad homes