Puffy eyes? Vit A deficiency? Beta Carotene?

[KatCham]

Hi All,

While feeding and during a misting today I noticed Simbas eyes looking puffy/baggy again. Can experienced keepers please advise on how he looks?

(These videos were initially going to capture him eating the feeders but that didn't happen so using them to show you his eyes - not the best quality, sorry)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvFaA_9f_KM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-wBhqbSr74

And these pics during misting:

Am I worrying about nothing or are they abnormaly puffy/baggy. I've been considering possible causes....

Enclosure is new/clean and mister was sterlised so I have ruled out environment issue.

While searching the net I came across Vit A deficiency. In particularly that chameleons cannot convert Beta Carotene into Vit A which is the ingredient in the vit supplement I use:

Exo Terra Multi Vitamin Powder Supplement is formulated to meet the nutritional needs of reptiles and amphibians in conjunction with their daily diet. It contains precise levels of vitamins amino acids and trace elements that are essential for energy production growth maintenance reproduction and many other bodily functions. Exo Terra Multi Vitamin Powder Supplement is a complementary pet food for reptiles and amphibians. Vitamin A from beta carotene Contains all the essential amino acids Perfectly balanced trace elements minerals amino acids and vitamins Stimulates growth reproduction and other vital bodily functions For reptiles and amphibians Ingredients: Dried seaweed dried yeast ground oyster shell dextrose salt calcium carbonate. Contains EU permitted additives. EU Typical Analysis: Protein 20% Oils and Fats 1 2% Fibre 4% Ash 9% Copper (as copper sulphate) 2 5mg/kg. EU Vitamin Statement: Vitamin A 90 000 mcg Vitamin D3 22 000 IU/kg Vitamin E 100mg/kg.


If I was to administer the correct form of Vit A to Simba, what should I use and how would I do it safely? (I'm hoping this would reveal whether he is Vit A deficient without the need for a stressful and probably expensive vet visit)

He is well hydrated (2 x 5 min and 2 x 10min mistings per day resulting in bright white urates)

He is eating the 6 feeders I am giving him every other day (although today when shooting at morios just after misting, he did miss a couple of times)
His droppings are big, therefore he must be eating well?

Your help and advice would be much appreciated. I'd be interested to know if anyone has had the same symptoms??

 

[Zen Reptiles]

He could have debris in his eye, I had this happen once and put drops (plain water) in his eye for a few weeks before it dislodged itself on its own. It was a piece of dry skin which had swelled up with the moisture in the eye. Was pretty gross, looked like a sperm plug coming out of his eye! lol

There are a few vitamin A's you can use. Repashy makes a vitamin A powder a lot of keepers use once a month or so. I have it and use it, but vitamin A can be scary if you use it too much.

I also usually put ONE drop on ONE feeder ONCE a month (most of the time, if I feel its due) of human-grade vitamin A gel tablets that have Halibut Liver Oil + Retinyl Palmitate. I never use the Repashy & the gel tabs in the same month.

Retinyl Palmitate I have read is okay for chameleons once a month.

If you are using vitamin A therapeutically, you may want to use more than I am recommending, but be sure not to over do it.




Looking at your videos I can't tell if the entire enclosure is glass? It looks like it's glass with a few vent holes cut in.

I love glass myself, but with chameleons...at least TWO full sides need to be screen, those vent holes are not nearly enough unless you have some computer fans also going in there. I would suggest this may be a bacterial problem and some medicated eye drops might help you.

edit: although I see the bottom is also allowing airflow so that's good sorry! You may want to get a little computer fan in there anyways, there are silent ones that go by the trade name Xilence

 

[KatCham]

Thanks for the reply.

I had considered debris as he had similar symptoms (but much worse-balloons for eyes )a little while ago. Took out degraded textured vines and sterilised everything and he got anti bac drops from vet which seemed to help but he's always had a baggy look around his eyes. Only occasionally do they puff up like this.

He was in a mesh enclosure with the previous eye issue.

Yes this enclosure has a glass front but the whole of the top panel is mesh as well as the 5 ventilation holes in the back panel. I'll look at getting a fan maybe but I don't think there is an airflow issue.

The enclosure and mistking are thoroughly cleaned reg too so doubt it's bacterial.

I will get some repashy vit a and dust once a month with that as u do, thank you (is this mixed with calcium only or on its own)

Thanks again. Will keep u posted

 

[KatCham]

Can't seem to find the repashy brand vit a here in uk

Would this brand be ok as vit a is provided as retinol rather than beta carotene. Also has calcium and d3.

http://www.livefoods.co.uk/product_info.php/nekton-rep-vitamin-and-mineral-supplement-35g-p-2032

 

[KatCham]

Couple more pics to show baggy/puffy skin

I'd be grateful if someone could advise on the brand of vit a supplement please. I'll order today if retinol is more suitable than beta carotene.

 

[Miss Lily]

Kat, here's a link to the all in one Repashy Calcium Plus that a lot of people are raving over. http://www.repashy.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=2

 

[KatCham]

Thanks tiff

Would this be used twice a month as other multi vitamins?

Calcium only every other feed?

Simba now eating every other day

 

[Miss Lily]

I don't know about usage I'm afraid as I still use the 3 separate supplements. I have a feeling that Hoj uses the calcium plus - it might be worth messaging him.

 

[KatCham]

Ok thanks I will

What do u use, just out of curiosity? X

 

[DrRhymes]

Hey, recently my vet reccomended Miner all-d and I have heard that reptivite also works well.

Regards,
Nate

 

[jannb]

I use the Reptivite here. I also wanted to let you know that puffy eyes can mean other things besides vitamin A deficiency and infections. I have learned from my chameleon spelicalist that chameleons can have parasites behind their eyes that can make them bulge and look puffy and in my panther Sid's case it means high blood pressure.

 

[KatCham]

Thanks for the advice jann that's good to know. I'm wondering if its a deficiency as he went thru a stage of not eating regularly. He eats every other day now in new enclosure

I think it going to be a process of elimination here to be honest

Will try supplement change first, then if no change will have to take him to the vets. Although the last time he went, symptoms disappeared on getting to the vets and fecal came back negative for parasites.

Supplement change the least stressful for him so will try that first

Thanks again

 

[KatCham]

Repashy super foods calcium plus ordered

Thanks tiff/hoj

Fingers crossed I see a difference and don't need to stress him out with a vet visit!!

Also ordered another vine and some fruit beetle grubs for him too. Oh he's a spoiled boy! Lol

 

[laurie]

Kat you do a good job with his care, I am sure this is a bump in the road and he will be good as new soon.

 

[KatCham]

Kat you do a good job with his care, I am sure this is a bump in the road and he will be good as new soon.

Awww thanks Laurie. That means a lot!

 

[KatCham]

Gave the mistking a thorough clean today with viv cleaner so I know that's bac free.

Going to change his live plant tomorrow from the ficus (sap can cause eye issues and loads of the leaves have been falling off!) to a split leaf philodendron.

As calci plus not here yet, going to try n find vit a capsules tomorrow and put a drop on a fruit grub to get it in him until supplement arrives.

If none of the above make an improvement with the eye swelling, the vets it is!

Will keep u posted