possibly gravid t deremensis HELP!!

[pwerfulyifu]

this is day two of me trying to get my Bulma to lay eggs. i saw her sleeping at the bottom a couple of times a few days back and i immediately set up a 5 gallon bucket with some vines, uvb lighting and heat, and blinder so she gets privacy. so far she either wanders around the sand/soil mixture or just climbs back up. i've even dug a few holes for her but im not really sure how big or how deep.

 

[Chuck G]

Have you contacted a vet? She may not lay them if she is too far gone.
She may have to have some help as far as inducing labor. I wouldn't let her go too long. I have seen them go down pretty quick.

 

[pwerfulyifu]

i saw a vet. he just totally ignore my question. i asked him if she's gravid and he's all like "you know its different in captivity because of all the irregular lighting schedules and that they can no longer differentiate seasonal changes." but i dont know that 5 minute vet trip costed me 60 dollars...

 

[DeremensisBlue]

Deremensis have an unnerving habit of refusing to lay eggs and dying. Obviously, not all do this (my profile pic attests to this), but many deremensis hold back for some reason. I personally am wondering if there is an environmental cue they are not getting, but I have not cracked this.
On one of my females I started oxytocin with little success and a necropsy found her egg laying tube was damaged. One data point.

As for your situation, I would suggest taking her to the best vet you can and induce egg laying. If she is at the bottom of the cage it is as good of a sign that she is ready that you are going to get. I have been at this point with a number of gravid deremensis and, in my experience, overt signs of distress come when there is little else you can do besides watch her die.

I advise to take her in and get egg laying induced. But realize you are getting this opinion from someone who has only seen some pictures and read your words. Take this opinion and any others you get and make your own decision. My second suggestion, though, is to make that decision now while you still have a decision to make. Unfortunately, in this case, you will have to make a decision before conclusive data is available to you.

 

[DeremensisBlue]

i saw a vet. he just totally ignore my question. i asked him if she's gravid and he's all like "you know its different in captivity because of all the irregular lighting schedules and that they can no longer differentiate seasonal changes." but i dont know that 5 minute vet trip costed me 60 dollars...

Well, yeah, he is right....what was his suggestion or options for you to consider?

 

[pwerfulyifu]

Well, yeah, he is right....what was his suggestion or options for you to consider?

but...but...i asked him if she was gravid...not when do they become gravid...

 

[kinyonga]

I have to agree with what DeremensisBlue said..."Deremensis have an unnerving habit of refusing to lay eggs and dying. Obviously, not all do this (my profile pic attests to this), but many deremensis hold back for some reason. I personally am wondering if there is an environmental cue they are not getting, but I have not cracked this."...also, its usually fall when they breed and lay eggs...but that doesn't mean she couldn't be gravid now.

I did have one female that wouldn't lay in the larger container I usually move them to when they are ready but did lay them readily in the small/deep container back in her cage. Don't know if the change in containers had anything to do with it or it was just a fluke.

Good luck with her though.

 

[Carlton]

this is day two of me trying to get my Bulma to lay eggs. i saw her sleeping at the bottom a couple of times a few days back and i immediately set up a 5 gallon bucket with some vines, uvb lighting and heat, and blinder so she gets privacy. so far she either wanders around the sand/soil mixture or just climbs back up. i've even dug a few holes for her but im not really sure how big or how deep.

A couple of ideas while thinking back to other keepers with gravid females not laying...your cage is very bare and exposed even with a sheet wrapped around it. Deremensis are thick undergrowth lower canopy chams and prefer cover so dense she'll be hard to find even in a small space. She is most likely wc fresh from the wild, so is possibly searching for a secluded digging spot under a big shrub, possibly with a piece of log to help support her tunnel. That is a likely place in the wild, and your cage is still very strange to her. What about bringing in a big armload of silk leaved branches if you can't get more live plants for the cage? Create a visual wall all around the digging area, don't aim the spotlight to the ground, but aim it higher up where she might climb to bask?

 

[Chuck G]

It's always better to let them go through the process on their own but if they can't or won't lay them, you will lose her.
If your vet is unfamiliar with this I can offer what I do to try and save her.
You will need 2 things from the vet or he can do the procedure and charge you.
If you are capable and willing to inject your chameleon he should just charge you for the meds.
You will need 0.1 cc of Oxytocin, which he can preload a syringe for you.
This is based on a body weight of 175-250 gms. If it's different we can adjust.
You will need 1cc of a Dextrose and Sodium Chloride solution. Vets have this.
It's a 2.5% Dextrose and 0.45% Sodium Chloride solution. He can preload a syringe with this as well.
The solution is used as subcutaneous fluids that you will inject directly under the skin creating a bubble. You will then inject the Oxytocin directly into the bubble so it is slowly released into the system.
You will need a fine needle gauge to do this.
I am 15 for 15 saving my Parsonii and Deremensis using this procedure.
I am willing to talk you through this over the phone if you need to. 410 251 6237.
Hopefully I have typed all this for nothing and she has already layed them.
I am in no way condoning anyone trying this on their own without proper vet help. This is what has worked for me in past.

 

[Dooley1]

That is great advice Chuck. It yielded results for you and I am happy you are willing to share your experience with the forum.

Kevin

 

[Chuck G]

I want to stress again, this has worked for me and doesn't take the place of a good herp vet. I have received alot of messages about this and I am willing to help anyone if I can.

 

[BocaJan]

I had a WC deremensis given to me that looked pretty poor. I put her in a cage with a lot of greenery, misted every time I walked past the cage and had a very small fan that kept the air circulating next to her cage. NOT INTO HER CAGE. Took her about 2 weeks of hiding, eating, drinking (I didn't see much of her at all, I just left her alone) and I finally heard her digging in her bucket. She laid her eggs. I kept her for another 2 weeks to build her up with calcium, food and water before returning her to her owner. She loved the moisture and the cooler temps.

Had she stayed with her owner she would have died within several days. I am so glad I could have saved her and got her to lay her eggs without any drugs.

 

[pwerfulyifu]

It's always better to let them go through the process on their own but if they can't or won't lay them, you will lose her.
If your vet is unfamiliar with this I can offer what I do to try and save her.
You will need 2 things from the vet or he can do the procedure and charge you.
If you are capable and willing to inject your chameleon he should just charge you for the meds.
You will need 0.1 cc of Oxytocin, which he can preload a syringe for you.
This is based on a body weight of 175-250 gms. If it's different we can adjust.
You will need 1cc of a Dextrose and Sodium Chloride solution. Vets have this.
It's a 2.5% Dextrose and 0.45% Sodium Chloride solution. He can preload a syringe with this as well.
The solution is used as subcutaneous fluids that you will inject directly under the skin creating a bubble. You will then inject the Oxytocin directly into the bubble so it is slowly released into the system.
You will need a fine needle gauge to do this.
I am 15 for 15 saving my Parsonii and Deremensis using this procedure.
I am willing to talk you through this over the phone if you need to. 410 251 6237.
Hopefully I have typed all this for nothing and she has already layed them.
I am in no way condoning anyone trying this on their own without proper vet help. This is what has worked for me in past.

so you want me to go to the vet and just ask for all these? like any vet will do? not just an exotic vet?

 

[Chuck G]

Any vet can, but I don't know what they are willing to do.
You need to have a vet that is familiar with reptiles if not for this incident but for future problems as well if you are going to be a chameleon owner.