Possible very bad Vitamin A deficiency. Please help

[Calypso]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Blue bar ambilobe panther about 11 months. Had about 5 months.
Handling - Daily, for care purposes. Normally every few days let free range in bathroom. Sporatically for outdoor sessions.
Feeding - Gut load is bug burger and dino fuel raptor edition. Crickets, superworms, butterworms, phoenix worms, dubia; didn't care for hornworms. Just introduce lobster roach today, and breeding hissers for the not so near future. Daily log of feeding has been taken for the past couple of weeks if exact info is needed.
Supplements - Dusting with zoo med calcium w/o D3, and Dino Fuel Raptor Edition
Watering - Monsoon mister and random hand misting. Set for every 2 hrs 30 seconds with distilled water. Seen drinking and even out of water bowl at bottom of cage. Lately seems to be hydrated.
Fecal Description - Fecal looks normal consitency with dark brown coloration
History - Used to stand with head pointed straigh up and make an almost hiccup where he would quickly puff his throat out. Didn't seem to be a problem, as when I opened cage or got his attention he would stop. Today start making an almost buzzing sound. Didn't sound good at all. Will sporatically mouth gap quickly for less than 10 seconds. Pretty rare for the most part.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - https://www.chameleonforums.com/reptibreeze-xl-101516/ (all necessary pics Reptibreeze XL)

Lighting - 12/12 reptisun 24" 10.0 on zilla light strip, and 100W Powersun

Temperature - Basking 90-95, ambient day 70-85. Lowest overnight temp 69F. Measure temp with zoo med hygrotherm and reptitemp .

Humidity - 60-91% RH. Maintaining by steam room with connecting room bathroom shower for 45 min 3-5 times a day. Peaks about 95%RH, effects tend to last several hours as it is a controlled temperature and humidity room just for the cage. Measure with zoo med hygrotherm.

Plants - Only live plant is ficus climbed on outisde during 30 min- 3 hr periods now and then.

Placement - Consult above Reptibreeze XL pictures. Private room thermostat and unit above in front of cage with acrylic piece deflecting direct air fans over or onto cage. Bottom of cage about 2 1/2 ft off ground.

Location - Baton Rouge, LA

Current Problem - Shut eyes. Inactivity. Responsive, hunting and eating; spurts of activity followed by dark coloration while basking with eyes shut. Constantly rubbing and bulging eyes. Having a very hard time with current shed.

 

[camimom]

Is he making that hiccup noise and the buzzing noises all the time.. or just recently?

If its recent, it sounds like he has a respiratory infection.

If hes bulging his eyes alot and keeping them shut, he could have a secondary infection in his eyes, or sinus cavities.


I think its time for a vet visit.

 

[Calypso]

I've had a shut eyed thread, but didn't get a lot of feedback. Now that he has gone into his fourth day of shedding, I'm getting really worried. He mostly sits with eyes closed now. Got active for a good bit yesterday while outside. With the weakened ability to shed, eye problems, and lethargy; I'm convinced it's a severe Vitamin A deficiency. I have got little to no help from local vet, and am in desperate need for advice. I've heard of fish oil treatments, but I don't know much about them. Should I take cham to vet for injections or something possibly? I took a fecal to them three weeks ago with no reply back as to the results. I will try again. Any advice in the mean time would be greatly appreciated. I think he may be constipated as well. Not sure if this is a side effect of deficiency or difficulty digesting an anole lizard he ate while free ranging three weeks ago. I've been soaking him in luke warm water to try to hydrate and if possible give enema. The very first day there was a good reaction to this treatment, but there was a pretty small bowl movement as compared to normal. Also, the movements seem to be proceeded by white liquid spray. Although, feces seems to have normal brown coloration and density.

 

[Calypso]

https://www.chameleonforums.com/shut-eyes-102756/

Most of the original daily updates were in a dino fuel thread that I added into the shut eye thread above.

 

[Calypso]

I've only heard the buzzing sound briefly once about a week ago. The hiccups haven't happened in quite some time. Thought it was important to mention. He has however been rubbing and bulging his eyes since I got him about 5 months ago.

 

[camimom]

I think you need to find a better vet wtih more experience.

If he has a respiratory infection, you need antibiotics. same with his eyes.

It could be a vitamin A deficiency, but I dont have experience with that.

Try long shower sessions, higher humidity, if you can get him outside for sun, do that too.

But i think a vet is needed.

 

[camimom]

If its predominantely his eyes, he could have an eye infection.


try go getting some plain saline and putting a drop or two in the affected eye.

ALso, do a search on here for vitamin a and see waht you find.

 

[ChameleonMom]

Two suggestions from me, get the bowl of water out of the bottom of the cage! There is no reason he should be drinking from stale, standing water which is a breeding ground for bacteria. Second, find a qualified reptile vet and get him there ASAP! I am thinking respiratory infection as well, and in the absence of Calcium w/D3, a Vitamin A deficiency could also be a problem. Please, seek out medical attention!

 

[GabeCastro]

Sorry you're going through all this with your Cham...Hopefully he can over come all his health issues.

A fecal test would of been great, I wonder why your vet hasn't given you results yet? Usually a fecal takes anywhere from a day or 2 for results. This would of made sure your Cham had parasites or not. Also if he did it'll explain a few of the symptoms.

First off, if your chams eyes are close it may be because he's not getting enough supplements/vitamins. He should be on a schedule throughout the month. Calcium w/ NO D3 every feeding, Multivitamin 2x a month, and Calcium WITH D3 2x a month.

Second, eyes bulging means he's constantly trying to clean his eyes. Your humidity sounds kinda crazy to me. He may be getting too much if he's making wheezing/buzzing noises. This can be from a respiratory infection.

You mentioned gaping, if your Cham gapes its because he's trying to regulate his body temperature. I'd lower the basking spot to high 80's-90 at the max. Your Cham may be too hot.

Another reason for eyes shut is your chams digestive system is backed up. I've heard stories of chams dying on a full stomach because they couldn't digest their food. Also some signs were eyes shut during the day if I recall. (Please don't quote me on this, it's just from stuff I've read from other members on the site who had vets explain this to them)

If he's really sick, I'd suggest moving him to a smaller cage to make it easier for him to navigate. Set up a dripper, few vines, and a bowl for feeders.

I'd also suggest visiting a herp vet immediately. All the symptoms you're describing sounds like A LOT of things could be wrong with your Cham. But, you'll never really know unless you go and talk with an expert herp vet. They can give your Cham a check up, listen to your problems and figure out what's wrong.

My Cham was having similar symptoms like eyes shut during the day. He wasn't eating anything solid for a good month. Prior to all this i had a feeling something was wrong with him since i first got him. He just acted a bit strange so i got a fecal test done. My vet told me he had 2 parasites, coccidia & pinworms. Both were passed from other reptiles at a reptile store i bought him at. Ver even said the store had/has a terrible reputation. For about a good 2 months i had to give my cham eye drops, coccidia meds, pinworm meds, and forcefeed him when he wouldn't eat for a week. It lasted about a month till he passed. I tried everything possible, but I only knew what to do because my vet told me what to do. I had the forums but they can't physically check your Cham. My vet also told me my Chams chances of living were slim. But I took a chance and tried to bring him back to perfect health. A month into the procedure I got another fecal test which came back negative with any parasites. I was super excited, and everything. But little did I know the fecal I gave my vet was the dead parasites that the meds got. The must of laid eggs inside my Cham which caused his death. So it's always good to get multiple fecal samples. My vet told me so much info that I've learned from so I can only help with experience.

The most help you'll get here is a few assumptions of what your Cham has. But it's Better to find out exactly what's wrong instead of guessing. You don't wanna treat your Cham like he has MBD when he has mouth rot or something you know? Also if you take your Cham to the vet, you'll be able to get help from us knowing exactly what's wrong with your Cham. Then we can give you at home remedies or tips.

There's a few vets on here, but I HIGHLY suggest you find a herp vet. I would search for some in your area but I'm on my phone. Hopefully someone can chime in and drop you a few links/numbers.

Good luck with everything and keep us updated with your Cham. Sorry for the super long post! But I just want to make sure you understand your Cham can be really sick.

-Gabe

 

[Calypso]

Thank you so much Gabe. I called to see if I could get the vet that helped me with my last chameleon. He's in surgery, but I think he'll be able to have an emergency visit today. I tried calling the diagnostics lab, but got no response. Hopefully they'll call me back telling me they just forgot to call.

 

[carol5208]

Am I the only that picked up the fact that he is using a Powersun(which has UVB) AND the 10.0? Might be too much uvb causing the eye problems. You should have one UVB light and one basking(uva) light that does not emit uvb. The Powersun is a combo uvb/uva to my knowledge.

 

[GabeCastro]

Nice! Really glad to hear you got in contact with someone. Hopefully everything goes well. Please keep us posted with any more info. And it never hurts to call them back, they should understand!

As Carol mentioned, You have a PowerSun light...100w will get super hot, and emits UVB & UVA (Just double checked). Get rid of that combo. This "may" be another reason for your chams eye for being shut.

Try and get a regular 60watt household bulb for basking, and a 5% ReptiSun UVB bulb + hood.

And if you have any other questions on husbandry feel free to ask. You can always PM me or other members for help.

-Gabe

 

[sandrachameleon]

I'm convinced it's a severe Vitamin A deficiency.

why? what makes you think this?
You are using Bug Burger as your gutload, and that contains Vitamin A. If I were you I'd vary the gutload more, espcially as you dont seem to be using a vitamin supplement.

Your temps seem a bit high. I wonder if the eye-shut has anything to do with the powersun?

Does not hearing back on the fecal mean they found nothing or? this is a fairly important thing to find out!

 

[Calypso]

Got in touch with the diagnostics lab, and got them to forward results to vet. I was able to get an emergency visit with my previous cham vet. The fecal came back normal. Only thing that showed was a very low parasite at 1 pin worm egg per gram of urate. Vet said it's nothing to be worried about. Did a full physical and came back normal again. Weight seems to be constant from last visit a few weeks ago. Got a x-ray to check for blockage and bone density. Both came back looking good. We haven't been able to figure out what's going on. When he is being held he is active and fully mobile, but he keeps going into these lethargic states. We took a video of the eye bulging as he was concerned with a red fleshy tissue that was showing inside of the eye while bulging. We showed the video to the opthamologist, but again was unable to identify problem. It's possible he may just clean his eyes more often than other chams. I am going back Thursday to get an ultrasound on his eyes done. Possible that the fat tissue is inflamed. Right now i was given Diclofenac sodium ophthalmic solution. It's basically to reduce inflammation in eyes and clean them. I've stopped using my uvb bulb, but after talking to the vet he doesn't seem to think there is a problem with my current setup. I'll try to have those new x rays up for y'all to check out some time soon.

 

[Calypso]

Also, I didn't get a blood test done due to so much stress already and the vet didn't think that it was too pertinent at the moment. Maybe will do Thursday when I go back. Also, I've been doing soaks every day for about 30 min to try to hydrate and help with the shed. Today he got most of the shed off.

 

[Calypso]

I guess it must have been an eye irritation or maybe just weird behavior due to his shed, but Zeus started doing much better today. He woke up moved and went back to sleep between 8-10. I then woke him back up with warm soak to help any more shed and hydrate him. After that he seemed very spry and starting eating his superworms again like he'd been starved. Justifiable since I hadn't fed much due to worrying about blockage. Hopefully this is the start of a positive trend. Do y'all think I should hold off on the eye ultra sound if theres improvement?

 

[sandrachameleon]

I think you are awesome for being willing to do everything necessary /possible for your cham. too few people are willing to do vet care.

Have you increased the watering? Is the power sun still off?

With my chams, I go with my gut feeling and experience, to decide if a vet visit is necessary or if I should wait a day or two. Sounds like you feel the ultra sound could wait a day or maybe two becaused you are seeing improvement and I think that's probably the right call. that said, Sleeping during the day is a bad sign and not to be too negative but sometimes they perk up just before the end.

 

[Calypso]

Thanks, I really appreciate that. The vet bills aren't cheap and the results can be inconclusive, but I feel as a good owner I have to give him every shot I can. Plus, the sentimental value way outweighs any vet bill.

I've been soaking him every day in a dish with luke warm water. I've also been misting frequently while free ranging him outside. Since it's gotten warmer over the past few days, I've been averaging him outside for approximately 4-6 hours everyday. Since he's been getting so much exposure, I've continued to keep the UVB off. However, the powersun is kept on. I figure it's the best for his bask warmth, light, and giving him what little uvb it can compared to his daily outings.

He's definitely become more active. The drops seem to be having a good effect on his eyes. I've been seeing him rub his eyes only once per day where as compared to before which was some what constant. His grip which was almost nonexistent, is now ten fold in strength. I even took him onto a tree that was the widest he's gripped yet. Hoping some good exercise could help his immune system. He struggled a bit getting a good grip on it, but he made it look easy after ten minutes or so.

Hoping for continued improvement, and sunshine. If things continue in this pace, I'm not sure if I will get the ultrasound. However, if things were to go south. Would y'all think the blood test would be more conclusive than the ultrasound? The doc said the ultrasound would be better, but I can't help but think the blood would give the most feedback.

 

[Calypso]

So Zeus has been off and on. Good days, and bad. Hopefully this cold will pass here, and I'll be able to keep him outside everyday. If I don't get a good improvement by next Wed. I'm taking him in for the ultrasound.

 

[Calypso]

So it looks like Zeus is going back into his lethargic state. I think I will try to get him in for an ultrasound and blood work next week. I'll keep soaking him and trying to get him active, but with the cold coming back he seems to be doing poorly without being able to go outside.