Possible Brumation?

Gnarla

New Member
Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled Chameleon, approx 8 - 10 mos old.
Handling - I handle him frequently. He seems to tolerate it well. He was notable in hospital for his uncharacteristic pleasant cham disposition!
Feeding - I feel daily mealworms, waxworms, occasional crickets which feed on T-Rex Calcium Plus. When I first brought him home, he was eating at least 8 - 10 worms/crickets a day! He had a full-on body shed in June.
Watering - I mist the enclosure at least 2x/day. In the past week, I have put a bowl of water in, and I actually saw him drinking.
Fecal Description - To me, normal urates/feces. Whitish to yellowish urates, brown solid poo.
I believe he was tested for parasites whilst in hospital.
He had been abandoned by previous owners. He'd come in paralyzed in his hindquarters (perhaps been stepped on?) and tube-fed and on antibiotics. After several weeks, his body movement returned, and he has been an eager walker/climber ever since, not to mention he had an incredible appetite until the past week.
Cage Info:
Cage Type -Cage is old modified homemade iguana cage--wood w/ plexi window. 5' tall, 3'x3' all the way from ground to top. Natural bamboo inside for climbing. Towels line the bottom of the cage (soft in case he falls!)Lighting - Ex-terra Repti-glo 5.0. Incandescent lightbulbs for heat, ranging from 75 watts (when it's cold out) to 15 watts on hot days. I generally do 8 a.m. to 8 pm w/ the lights.
Temperature - Temps range from 90s at top of cage, to 70 on the bottom. We have thermometers placed in both areas.
Humidity - Around 20 - 30%. We're in Oregon, so there's not a lot of humidity. And we had a proper summer for a change, of temps in the 80s to 100!
Plants - I don't have live plants, but I supervise him closely in the garden. He enjoys climbing mustard green plants & eating the occasional leaf. He likes to go for tomato plants, but I would think tomato leaves are poisonous (a guess), so I try to steer him away from those! He's wild-caught several daddy longlegs spiders & a moth or 2.
Placement - THe cage is in my office, next to a big iguana cage (tho they face the same direction, neither can see the other--and the iguana is out most of the day.)
Location - Outside Portland, OR
Current Problem - THe night/morn temps have gotten cooler during the past wk. This is when I'd see uneaten worms/crickets in the cage, not his usual self! ANd he'd crawl to the bottom of the cage & hide out beneath the towels. He is definitely skinnier & his eyes seem a bit sunken, although when I get him in the sun outside he colors up normally & is active as usual, walking & climbing. As I said, I have a vet appt on Tues, but I'm a reptile mama & I know health is sometimes precarious in these guys. Especially w/ his past, I am unwilling to let his health slide! I'm really hoping this is some sort of brumation--which I don't experience w/ iggies, obviously! Thanks so much for your help. He's a beautiful guy & I want him to thrive!
 
The main problems I can see are these-

His watering, misting needs to be done more often- at least 4 times a day. He's obviously very thirsty if he's using a bowl. Chameleons don't usually drunk standing water so you really need to install a drip system do he can drink the drips and the spray off the leaves.

His diet, mealworms and waxworms are for a treat only if at all. They are very fatty and not nutritious. You can feed things like silkworms, crickets, locusts, hoppers. All these should be correctly gutloaded to improve the value of them. You need to be careful what he eats from the garden! Wild insects can be poisonous or contain parasites, I'm pretty sure daddy long legs contain poison as do tomato plants so you REALLY need to keep him away from those.

His humidity is a bit low. You can help by covering some sides of the screen with plastic or a shower curtain and up your mistings. Low humidity can cause health issues just as too high humidity can.
 
Cooler temps would lead to a decrease in appetite but it sound like there is something else going on with your chameleon.
 
I'll leave the possible brumation aside for now as I'm not sure I can speak from experience (people tend to keep Veileds at constant temps, though in the wild they do have seasonal changes). Here is an old thread about the idea you might like to look at - https://www.chameleonforums.com/veiled-chameleons-hibernation-brumation-12984/
Do you dust the insects with any Calcium powder? Additional calcium supplementing is a must. No commercial gutload will be enough, and the insects should have some fresh fruits and veggies too - https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/75-feeder-nutrition-gutloading.html The tomato leaves are toxic. A yellowish urate and sunken eyes are signs of dehydration. A dripper setup would give him constant access to water if he's not drinking enough during the mistings.
Now, onto the current problem - He is just getting to his 'teenage' phase where he will naturally cut down on his food and may even become more tetchy and territorial. Also, male Veileds are notoriously picky eaters and you have been giving him some of the fatty foods that can make them go on a bit of a 'hunger strike'. At about that age was when my guy stopped eating for a while partly because I was treating him to too many waxworms and mealworms. Here is a list of other feeders to try that may stimulate his appetite - https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/74-feeders.html
Anyway, it seems like what you doing is alright, so I'll finish with a warning that a healthy cham can go a long time with no food if he's being picky. Here is a great all-round caresheet I always recommend to new people on here with Veileds - https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/chameleonsinmyhouse/395-veiled-chameleon-care-sheet.html
 
Thanks

Thank you for all your help! I also finally accessed my old photobucket acct and have some pics of Leon + his cage set up.
LEON

I hope this works! I will also look into special-ordering silkworms & locusts. Our local pet store (yes, I know) only has mealworms/waxworms. The gent there told me superworms were not good for chams because they can physically hurt them. ??
 
Supers are ok in moderation. I've not used them before because I hear a lot of chams will only eat them and go on feeder strikes when offered something else :) kind of like candy to a child!
 
The gent there told me superworms were not good for chams because they can physically hurt them. ??

This is a common myth. People say things like the superworm will chew it's way out of the chams stomach. Doesn't happen. Chams chew.
Unless he meant they are high fat/ high chitin and should only be offered sparingly.
 
Thanks for clearing that up. Leon's hanging in there. On the whole, he doesn't seem too bad--ambulatory, climbing, etc. He is hanging out (and cold to the touch) on the bottom of the cage, but I hung out w/ him in the sun today + gave him my half-assed slurry of Reptivite, water, crushed multivitamin, Critical Care (I know it's for herbivores, but it's what I have on hand), crushed calcium tab...fed via 1cc syringe, gave him maybe 0.7 cc over 10 min. His eyes seem so sunken to me & when he breathes, you can see his bones heaving. I am just counting the minutes til our vet appt Tues...

Should I keep getting him into the sun, or do you think he's OK hiding out in the colder part of the cage? Is that a better way to conserve his energy? (When he's in the sun he wants to move around.)

I'm sorry I'm being a PITA (I'm a vet tech, I know the type!) but I'm so unused to chams, and, yeah, I love him a lot! Thanks for your advice/patience.
 
Oooh, I wish we had a pic :) Either way, the sun is your friend and plenty of luke warm mistings. Let us know what the actual vet says please :)
 
Saw the vet!

OK, here's the skinny (as it were!):

We're going to reconfigure his cage & use a mercury vapor bulb instead of what we'd been using. Also, do away w/ "shelves" as he's not an iguana & basks instead whilst holding branches. (Yeah, I know, but I'm a newbie!) The doc said he didn't look that bad, although to me he's terribly skinny & his eyes are a bit sunken.

I'll be syringe-feeding him A/D until he feels like eating again. Luckily, we seem to be continuing our sunny streak (this is Oregon) so he'll be getting his usual dose o' that--he colors up in the sun & is quite ambulatory. Also he's getting treated w/ Baytril in case there's an underlying infection, because the doc was wondering why Leon just "suddenly" began going off food.

Any tips for posting pics? I went to the Photobucket url & pasted that in the drop-down, but apparently it doesn't work. THANKS AGAIN, everyone. (David, especially) I want my buddy to thrive!
 
Do you use an iPhone or iPad? I found a way to post pics using photobucket on these devices. Om hopeless with technology , but learning.:D
 
Thanks, Kate. I actually don't--I can hardly work a "regular" cell phone!--so I guess I'll keep trying... I wish we could download from our personal files. :mad: BTW, gave Leon 1cc of his A/D & got him some sun--he's walking about quite well, but still skinny. But if he wants to walk, then I suppose he's OK...
 
Mercury vapour bulbs are not your friend, very very hot and don't work with thermostats. They do have UVB but they only get it under scorching heat. You can use a regular house bulb for heat, they've a huge wattage range so you can find your perfect temps. For UVB, a strip such as reptiglow or an arcadia bulb is recommended. I use an Arcadia t5 12% housed on top of the enclosure and it's awesome! And I use a 75watt house bulb for heat.
 
If he continues to hang out near the bottom of the cage and it's not because the temps are too hot at the top then I would be taking him to the vet. It's not a good thing and if you wait too long it will likely be too late.
 
Convalescing

Hmmm, well, our vet (herp vet for 25 yrs, we've gone to him for 20) recommended mercury vapor bulb. And of course we're removing "shelving" since he's not an ig! :) He loves climbing the bamboo & grape twigs from our yard that we put in his cage.

He had his first (MONSTROUS) poop in a week, YAY!!!! Y'all understand the importance of feces on this forum, I'm sure! :D Anyhow, he's still being syringe fed & on Baytril, but seems to be coming around a bit.

Again, thanks for all your suggestions!
 
Holy sex change, Batman!

OK. Color me ignorant. I also took the vet's word that Leon is a Leon. SO, this morning, I'm cleaning the cage & there are a few round yellow things near the bottom. Uh, oh, do we have an infestation? Some sort of bug eggs? I take them & break them open, curious; no spiders, just...YOLK.

Then, as I lift the towel off the bottom of the cage--where he's been hiding out, not wanting to bask, to my frustration--there are at least 25 more EGGS beneath it! Some look like dried-up pieces of yellow corn--he stopped eating about a week & 1/2 ago. SO.

No wonder SHE has been off her food, skinny & w/ sunken eyes lately!!! :D We'd discounted the symptoms of gravidity since the vet had told us Leon was a boy. HA!

Not that I plan to stop syringe-feeding her or stopping the Baytril, just in case. And we're still re-doing the cage for maximum heat/light/UVB. But DANG. My little CAMILLE!!!!!
 
Whew!

Thanks, AngieL. Now I'm nervous for a whole 'nother reason, but I at least know what's going on! I had a nutritionally-compromised rescue iguana female 10 yrs ago who wound up resorbing her eggs...which is good, because I feared, in her poor health, she'd die passing them. When she got up to speed, I got her spayed ASAP! (I doubt they spay many chameleons, yeah?)

This also explains why, in the garden, she wanted to hang out in the dirt & not on the usual tall plants where she used to perch in the sun. Wow, we are just gobsmacked...
 
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