Poorly panther...

L

leigh01

New Member
Hiya!

My female panther looked perfectly fine one day and the next her eyes where very sunken and she isnt her usual self....

I know there are a million things it could be but I've seen her trying to... well she seems to be constipated..... I've tried her is a bath of warm water and she seemed to like it but it hasnt helped... I'm going to try it again later and maybe try the baby pear food later but has anyone else got any ideas?

I think the cause is overdoing calcium suppliments... the nurse at the vets gave me advice that was wrong... I am going to check with the vet when they open tomorrow but in the meantime any ideas on curing constipation?
 
pooly panther

To add to the previous post... I gave it a bit more time and it worked! Brilliant! Thank you to the people who posted that advice.

Her eyes are still sunken but I've been giving her 1.5ml of water and 1.5ml of critical care formula... and was planning on giving her more later on. Also dripper is dripping in case she feels the need to go drink herself. But she is just basking and sleeping high up right now.

She is was gasping regularly but not sure if this is a good or bad sign.. she is not bloated anymore so I'm hoping its her burping! ;0)

I'm going to take her to the vet tomoz but as these guys go down hill so quickly any short term as well as long advice is appreciated. My faith in my vet is damaged after my female who recently went in came back very dehydrated and was licking plants and glass the second she got home. She drank for hours, from a bowl, which she never had done before... she didnt make it... I dont entirely blame the vet as it was my fault she was ill but they didnt give her much of a chance by keeping her for a week with no water apart from what was mixed with dritical care formula. I let them know how obviously dehydrated she was when she got home so hopefully they have learnt from that... they thought they where giving her enough.

Also, the advice i got from the nurse at the vets was to give them (there are two females in there) 6 units... thats in a small syringe, of calcium suppliment daily... if anyone has advice on what you do that would be great. I think this is too much, they where fine until I started doing this a week ago and both my females seem poorly now.

The other female died shortly after laying eggs, the vet informed me that the reason for this was lack of calcium causing bone problems and kidney problems... I have always given my crickets and locusts the cricket food pellets which the vet advised was better than fresh fruit and veg and also dusted crickets and i give the zo-cal calcium supplient.. just unclear about the dosage. They also get a few waxworms now and again and regularly give the pheonix worms.... .and I've been trying moths recently which they seem to like.

I have also tried the bone aid drops.

After my other girl died I ordered some new suppliments that I researched online that I am waiting for to arrive cant exactly remember what but multi vitamin drops to add to water, a better suppliment for dusting crickets and another suppliment for something else... sorry I have forgotten what it was but think it was to help with digestion.

I have the zo cal calcium suppliment, bone aid drops and solar drops. Plus the crickets and locusts are gutloaded with the trex calcium plus food for crickets and recently been adding a bit of my vitamin supplients that i dust the crickets with to their bug gel.. not sure if this works but didnt think it cold do any harm. I also tried adding a bit of bee pollen to the crickets food.


Cage Info:

* Cage Type - Screen - 4ft 3ft x 3ft

* Lighting - UV and Heat bulb combined - I forgot the brand 100w. Also a Exo Terra box thingy with two UV bulbs in it. 12 hours on 12hours off. Heat mat to keep minimum temprature correct and a thermostat to check the temp. I also recently added a small spot lamp near the bottom shining onto the sand which encouraged one of the girls to lay when she didnt seem to like anything i offered her/I think it might warm the surface of the sand a little.

* Placement - Top of cage is 4ft above the floor. Lots of fake plants and vines with a large sand box at the bottom for egg laying.

* Location - Manchester UK

Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - Female Panther, 18months old.

* Handling - Recently daily to give them calcim suppliments but before that... just as an when they wanted to come out... weekly.

* Feeding - Most info above, moths, pheonix worms, wax worms, crickets, small locusts. They are gut loaded with the pellet cricket food and dusted. I feed a few at a time and if they eat them all quickly add a few more. Try to vary it as much as possible. Depends what they are being fed as to how much but I do make sure its not too much or too little.

* Supplements - Crickets are dusted every time, waxworms too. Nutrobal, zo-cal, bone aid drops dripped onto the head of a locust weekly... I'm away from home so not sure of the brand of the suppliment i use for dusting but the new one i ordered comes highly reccomended.

* Watering - I use a dripper daily... also spray the foliage twice daily until there is plenty of water to drink... also use ice cubes over a water bowl which apparently can help to train them to drink from the bowl.. worth a go! ;0)

* Fecal Description - Not tested for parasites, the faeces from today after the warm bath... brilliant.... fell into the water but looked normal apart from having a bit of a green tinge to it... but that might have been the water.

* History - She was perfectly healthy three days ago and then looked fine apart from really sunken eyes two days ago. I have kept chameleons for a few years, panthers for just over one year and never seen one look so healthy apart from the eyes, and for the eyes to sink so deep... so quickly.

* Current Problem - The current problem was constipation... obvious from her lifting her tail and making an effort to pass but not getting anywhere. The warm bath worked. Not sure constipation is the full problem.. but if i have overdone the calcium then it might be a symptom of that.

She was gasping afterwards for a while but has stopped now. A trip to the vets is in order but as its a sunday anything I can do tonight to help her?

Also, can overdoing the calcium cause constipation? She was fine until the vet nurse told me to increase the dosage to daily 6units. There is only one vet in my area that deals with exotics so if someone can help with the zoocal dosage that would be great!

I think I am doing OK with the suppliments.. I know I have made mistakes in the past. I lost my first veiled chameleon due to not getting the supplients right... and have read lots about it to try and get it right with my panthers.

Having lost one female due to lack of calcium I have stepped things up allot recently but I think I'm a bit overloaded with information now.. and might even be overdoing it!

Sory for going on a bit.. tried to keep the first post short but having read the How to ask for help I think more information is better?

Thanks for taking the time to read this.
 
She is gasping again.. allot... does anyone know what this means? She seems to be going down hill fast..... any suggestions of what might be going on here and what I can do between now and when I take her to the vet tomorrow I'd be very grateful.
 
Its possible you got some liquid into her airways? and she's trying to clear it. Vet visit seems the best thing, though from the sounds of it Im not sure the vet you are using is familiar enough with chameleons. Im not sure I'd trust anyone who suggests food pellets exclusively over fresh fruits and vegetables as a gutload, or who does understand the simple hydration needs of the animal.
 
Last edited:
She did go very pale Almost white and grey) ealier but has now gone to a pale orange with quite allot of pale black, almost her normal colours but not quite as vivid.. if that makes sense.. i dont mean grey i mean black areas but like half black and half orange areas.... a washed out version of her normal self....its hard to explain.. wish i had a camera.... i just picked her up to try and get her to take some water and even though she has a good grip she didnt open her eyes..... doesnt seem to be able to open them... she has now gone very pale again.

She has just passed some liquid and seemed to want to pass more but couldnt. Very similar to what my beardie did the day before a prolapse caused by impaction he got from eating too many mealworms.... the chameleons dont get fed mealworms.... neither do my beardies now!

Reading lots of other posts it doent look good... not sure she will make it long enough to get to the vets tomorrow morning... I'm going to keep dripping water on her nose now and again (wont pick her up again, that clearly mde her feel worse) but the fact she is now not opening her eyes, gasping still and looks allot worse than she did even a couple of hours ago suggests to me its too late to save her... that said I'd still like any advice you have to offer and also advice on the suppliments and calcium situation... I'm curious if the calcium suppliment i was advised to give caused this and what I should be doing in future with my other guys.

The fact the only vet anywhere near me seems to have contributed to my problems rather than helping is worrying! I'll be searching further afield!
 
is there a chance she could be gravid? and have you got a laying bin/bucket in her viv/cage? how deep is the sand?

graeme
 
Thank you....

Thank you for your concern, cheered me up a bit... she is reamarkably strong for a poorly chameleon... she wouldnt take water (i guess because she can see it coming) so held her gently and tried to get her mouth open... she reallly fought to get free.. i know that sounds bad but once she realised i was just trying to give her some water she started to drink a little (simply dripping on her nose was getting no reaction)... she is obviously very dehydrated and trying to get more fluid into her. could she really be so dehydrated that that is whats causeing her eyes not to open?

can you give too much water? only encouraging her to open a little and dripping some water, then timing the drops to her opening her moiuth until she stops so not forcing it.

ive dealt with poorly chameleons (4 years keeping and breeding veilds, fairly new to panthers) before but she is allot stronger than any in the past. I'm hoping that means its fixable. Forever the optomist!

She may be stuborn but she is strong! ;0)

She could be gravid as her house mates just both laid eggs but she is not nearly as fat as the other girls where and has not been exploring like they usually do... also, i have a sand box the other two used in there.. with fresh sand, and took her out a couple of weeks ago and gave her a few days on her own.. as i did with the others.

It never crossed my mind that she could be eggbound because the others did fine. It might be a possibility now though.... does that have these sort of effects?
 
is your female these colours
SDC10965.jpg


if so she my be gravid,how deep is your laying bin?

graeme
 
yes.. well she was.... its about 12" deep, 1.5ft wide and 1ft accross.... i have a couple of vines sticking out and the other two used it...

oh no... how stupid of me not to think of that! i guess there is nothing i can do but keep trying to get her to drink and hope she is strong enough to get to tomorrow morning so i can get her to the vet!

it may not be that but it makes sense.

is there anything i can do in the meantime? if she is eggbound the other female laid exactly two weeks ago today and if they mated i was on the same day... i only left the male in there for a few hours and thought i had kept a close eye on them, its not inconceivable he swapped females without me noticing.. and i did think they where mating for a very long time... its like a loads of lightbulbs pinging in my head now... feeling very guilty... i just didnt think she was gravid. this is my first time breeding.

i used to keep birds and a little vaseline and holding them over steam helped... i doubt very much that is going to work with a chameleon! i just hope she makes it to tomorrow and my vet isnt as useless as i think he is! :0)
 
I just found another thread that is pretty much the same as mine... ecomming quickly dehydrated... that one didnt give the sand like i have but i guess she just didnt like it... didnt try the bucket thing often enough... thing is i cant find the most important part of the thread that explains what happened... the chameleon survived but when i search for the thread i cant find it!

If anyone can help with a link that owuld be fab!
 
I think it is 0.06ml. If a 1ml syringe is divided into 100 its 6 of those units.... does that make sense?

yes, i do keep three female panthers together.. its a large viv and i introduced them slowly to each other, they do not react to each other at all... unless one stands on the others head for too long. plenty of basking spots and cover. they even sleep side by side on occasion.

I know there have been allot of threads about keeping chameleons together and really dont want to go there in this thread.... i think i could only be relevant in that it may be the reason she did not like the sand box the other two where happy to use.

Its hard to explain but its a big viv nd they can lay out of sight of me and the other girls. that said, i was taking them out for a few days at a time to be alone but all three of them where happier at home than in the private viv.... and bucket / bin i tried.

i think when i get to the vet i will find its an internal problem rather than to do with giving her the correct options to choose from.... although if I'm wrong i will be sure to eat humble pie.
 
ok... it was advised in one of my books... is it a bad idea because the water is cold? if it is then the water does not drip directly from the cube... its a plastic tray heated on the outside of the viv and as it overflows it drips into a shallow bowl.. the water is warm and it works really well... .. cant of a reason why its a bad idea. please explain.
 
leigh01 said:
ok... it was advised in one of my books... is it a bad idea because the water is cold? if it is then the water does not drip directly from the cube... its a plastic tray heated on the outside of the viv and as it overflows it drips into a shallow bowl.. the water is warm and it works really well... .. cant of a reason why its a bad idea. please explain.
Click to expand...
CONS
Cricket death,
Harbours Bacteria
Drowning threat..... i guess... lol

PROS
......

-Steve
 
Fair enough.. its only 1cm deep and its clean water every day but if there is a risk then i guess its not worht it. anyway, still keen for advice on calcium suppliments and short term, overnight care (off to vet first thing) of a recently diagnosed eggbound female.
 
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