Please help baby not responding!!!

[ericthornhill]

PLEASE HELP

my baby veiled chameleon (1-2 months old) is almost completely unresponsive! all hes doing is lying on his brach...how long can babies go without water? I gave him water at about 6 am this morning. He started shedding yesterday, and he hasnt been eating a lot of food for the last week or so. I am very worried this is it for him please please give any useful advise if you know may have an idea of it is ASAP!!!

 

[dragongoddess]

Sorry unresponsive is not a good sign for chams. I advise you take him to the vet.

If you wish to seek help on the forum it is best to fill out this form:
Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.


Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
* Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
* Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
* Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
* Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
* Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
* History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.


Cage Info:

* Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
* Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
* Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
* Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
* Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
* Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
* Location - Where are you geographically located?


Again, I advise you take him to the vet.

 

[pssh]

Fill out the how to ask for help form or take him to a vet. Even when you go near him he is still?

EDIT: oops

 

[ericthornhill]

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Glass, 15*15*24 (heard it was okay for babies)
Lighting - one 13W Exo*Terra UVB coil light bulb and one 75W Zoo Med Infrared heat bulb. Infrared on 24/7, UVB on for 12 hours per day
Temperature - Floor-basking spot: 74-92. Lowest overnight temp: 70 all measured with a thermometer
Humidity - 50%-70% done by misting
What do you use to measure humidity? hydrometer
Plants - Are you using live plants? one fake vine and one fake fern
Placement - in our dining room, next to our kitchen, low-moderate traffic area?
At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? 3-4 feet off the ground
Location - Calgary, Alberta (western canada)....dry climate.

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled Chameleon, Male, 1 month-2months old.
How long has he been in your care? 2 weeks
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? once a week
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? crickets
What amount? 8 in cage per day, but he only eats a couple, if any.
What is the schedule? 12 PM I put them in his terrarium
How are you gut-loading your feeders? with gut loaded meal found at pet store and apples.
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? Repashy Superfoods T-rex Chameleon Calcium plus..every cricket is dusted each day.
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? Misting and Drip...3 mists and 2 drips per day, water is hard water. today was only misted and dripped at 6am.
Do you see your chameleon drinking? never, but urinate is white.
Fecal Description - 1 week prior, brown, not too runny. Recently, somewhat runny.
Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? never
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. Bought at local pet store.
Current Problem - Not Moving, Unresponsive even when touched, eyes are sunken, falls asleep on hand. Just started shedding, and skin that is falling off is yellowy.

He was fine yesterday...he ate a few crickets, and was starting his shedding process. Today this morning (6am) he drank his water, and i hadn't misted him again until i got home (4pm). He was awake, but after misting, he closed his eyes and is now barley responsive. If he's touched he opens his half open eyes, looks around, and after a few seconds he closes them again.

 

[dragongoddess]

Your cham is dying, getting him to a vet NOW is your only hope. It may already be too late.
Sorry and I hope for the best.

Chameleons should never sleep in the day and he should be trying to get away from you.

 

[draetish]

This is not good and a vet visit is definetly the right call. You can try to hydrate your cham in the time being. Start with some Pedilyte (found in baby section) get a dropper and drip it on top of the nose and around the mouth to see if you cham will start swallowing. Be careful not to force the fluid in his mouth as you could do worse damage by getting it in his airway. Just drip and see if he will respond. If he does don't over do the Pedilyte also give him water. Do it at his pace. The pedilyte helps replace electrolytes. This is the short term thing you can do. It sounds like a lot more than just dehydration, but that's where I would start. Can you post a picture? That would really help.

 

[Julirs]

Sounds like dehydration to me. Your temps are way too high, and the infrared light is way too hot a wattage for that glass tank, and it should not be on 24 hours a day.

 

[ericthornhill]

Sounds like dehydration to me. Your temps are way too high, and the infrared light is way too hot a wattage for that glass tank, and it should not be on 24 hours a day.

but he just had water this morning! is it really possible for him to become dehydrated that quickly? His urine was white yesterday. I just don't understand what happened....he was fine yesterday

 

[Julirs]

I looked back through your other posts and you were told more than once to lower the temps and not use the light at night. Young babies can dehydrate that fast.

 

[OldSkoolxReasons]

The little guy could also be completely exhausted from never sleeping. the only time I use a red light to keep it warmer is on my big 7 ft. tall cages and only if the chameleon sleeps somewhere out of the red light. Usually I just use ceramic heat emitters though. 75 watt is wayyy to hot for the little guy in such a small glass tank a regular 40 watt house bulb a little bit above the top of the cage would be fine for keeping it warmer. I saying either dehydration or just heat exhaustion/sleep deprivation. I live in michigan and my basement get like 58 degrees so I use ceramic heater on almost every one and a chameleon safe space heater if the temp down there doesn't get about 68 during the day. Usually the cages are much warmer though thanks to towels and blankets on the sides of them all as visual barriers and heat keeperiners. It is harder to regulate the temperature without getting it too hot or so humid it causes excess bateria growth in such a small glass cage. Is the top screen atleast?


Justin

 

[ericthornhill]

I looked back through your other posts and you were told more than once to lower the temps and not use the light at night. Young babies can dehydrate that fast.

thanks for being so sympathetic...

 

[ericthornhill]

Thanks for the advise from everyone....obviously there isn't too much I can do at this point but wait.

-Eric

 

[Julirs]

thanks for being so sympathetic...

I am not trying to be mean. But if people refuse to listen to good advice I am not sure what can be done. You apparently refused to take him to a Vet also. I "cooked" my very first chameleon with a glass tank and red light on the advice of a Petstore. Hopefully you have turned off the red light.

 

[jojackson]

I do agree with Juli Eric, You were advised about the temperatures in your cage.

In this thread, 4 times!

https://www.chameleonforums.com/help-baby-wont-eat-34995/

You do not need a night time bulb unless your house drops below 50 degrees. His basking spot should be about 80-83 degrees

Eric, as advised, 92f is a bit too high for so young an animal, around 80f is good. Either lower wattage or move the bulb further away.

Possibly the reason for the half digested cricket, & possibly why its not eating is that temps are a little too high. Higher than normal temps may be discouraging your little lizard from basking long enough for proper digestion and to increase its metabolism enough to be hungry.
As I mentioned before, though your lizard is 2 months and wont be too long off requireing slightly warmer temps (they grow fast), these quoted temps are intended as a guide only, to avoid tradgic accidents.
Like I said, slightly cooler is safer than slightly hotter, your lizard will simply bask a little longer. So yes, perhaps drop the basking temp to between 80-85f, and the ambient temp in the 70's, at night 60f is quite acceptable.
As always keep up the water.

Also the ambient temp should be in the mid to upper seventies and shouldn't exceed 82 degrees as that means the basking spot is bound to be in the ninties and that is way to hot for a little guy like that.

 

[ericthornhill]

i know you guys are right...i should have listened more carefully. Im so sorry...Im just very depressed right now. I loved my chameleon.

 

[jojackson]

'Loved'? past tense? did it die?

 

[Chameleonator]

thanks for being so sympathetic...

Please understand, they aren't trying to bash you, instead they were giving you very good advice.

Your story has been told many times over and unfortunately you just have to chalk it up as lesson learned.

Don't let this misfortune deter you from keeping chameleons. Learn from it and the more you research and educate yourself on the keeping of chameleons, you will find it is not as hard as it should be if you follow some basic rules.

 

[ericthornhill]

R.I.P ziggy marley

Sadly my little guy passed away today...its been a tough last couple of days, but I'm relieved that he isn't in pain now. However, if I want to get a chameleon again, I'd like to be more prepared. I understand that I was told some things, multiple times, but did not listen...but now I am prepared to listen to anyone who thinks they can help. So please...if you feel this person may be you, by all means post a comment so I can avoid future tragedies.

For one the heat was too high...Is it reasonable to say that I don't even need a heat lamp, if temperatures never go under 65?-On average the overall temp for his GLASS terrarium was 80-82, and at night 78. As well, is 50%-70% a reasonable hydration level for veileds?

I also realize that substrate, (recommended by the pet store) may have been another factor...which could have lead to impaction, or even parasites due to the peat moss absorbing so much water. So should I avoid substrate all together?-or would newspaper or astro-turf the best solution?

As for calcium supplements, should crickets be dusted each day for young 8 week old veiled chameleons, or every other day? Should crickets that have not been eaten by the end of the day be removed?-I've heard that in some cases, crickets will bite the chameleon, while he's sleeping or basking, leading to a build up of stress, or infections. Or should I just ignore letting him hunt for food all together, by simply cup feeding him only?

Please reply if you feel like adding any input into my thread...I'm sorry for such a long email, but I'm just trying to understand the factors that may have lead to my chameleons death. I miss him very much, and would really like to avoid future problems like yesterdays and todays from occurring. I will post pictures of my terrarium tomorrow.

Thank you, Eric

 

[jojackson]

Your not the first to make such a mistake Eric, and beleive me, you wont be the last, dont beat yourself up.
Take a break for a few weeks and gather information here and nessary equipment to make a fresh start the right way.
Please read and absorb this, it was written by a very experienced and smart bloke here called Brad.
Its a guide that will give you all the information you need. I used it when I aquired my first veiled chameleon a year ago. I didnt know anything about their care at the time, but this guide set me right. My tiny lizard is now a big healthy one (thanks Brad).

http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/2007/12/keeping-female-veiled.html

Folk here only want success for you, sometimes they are a little...'Intense' , but they have your best intrest at heart. They will be happy to help you again.
Learn from it and move on mate, sorry you lost your animal.
cheers

 

[kinyonga]

Sorry for your loss. Its unfortunate that you lost your little chameleon, but its good that you want to learn from it.

Here's the short course on keeping veiled chameleons....
CAGING: depending on where you live...you can use either a screen cage or a partial screen/glass cage or one of the exo-terras that are glass but have ventilation in the front and screen lids. I prefer long low cages that are not too big for hatchlings (approx. 24"L x 12"W x 15"H). If you use a glass cage you need to be careful not to leave water laying on the floor of the cage.

You will need branches and foliage for cover...preferably live plants, non-toxic and well-washed (both sides of the leaves). You need a thermometer to be able to read the temperature. Two thermometers are even better because you can place one near the basking area and one elsewhere in the cage.

For the hatchlings, I try to keep the temperatures in the low 80's in the warmest areas with slightly lower temperatures at one end since their bodies are small and can dehydrate/overheat easier than an adult can.

LIGHTING/TEMPERATURE: I use a regular incandescent household bulb in a metal dome of a wattage that produces the proper temperature range for the chameleon to bask. With hatchlings I have not found it necessary to use a basking light...I use a double fluorescent fixture with a Repti-Sun 5.0 bulb in one half and a regular fluorescent tube in the other half. Some of the compacts, spirals and even long tubes have been found to cause problems, but this one has a clean record. (I already gave you the temperatures for a hatchling above.) For adult males I keep the basking area in the mid 80's to low 90's.

I place the basking light on/over the lid of the cage at one corner of the cage and I run the fluorescent tube lights along the length of the cages. Be aware that the UVB light should not pass through glass or plastic.

Watering: For hatchlings, I mist the cage a couple of times a day with warm water trying to make sure the water doesn't pool in large drops. I don't use a dripper for hatchlings because they can aspirate the water and drown. I use a dripper for adults...it can be as simple as a deli cup with a tiny hole in the bottom so it drips at the rate of a couple of drops per second.

FEEDING: I feed hatchlings mostly crickets of an appropriate size that have been gutloaded/fed a nutritious diet and dusted at most feedings with a phosphorus-free calcium powder (Rep-cal) to help make up for the usually poor ratio of calcium to phos. I feed the hatchlings as many crickets as they can eat in a couple of minutes. I feed them at least once a day. Adults I feed every second day. (Female veileds have to be regulated to prevent health issues...males can have a little more leeway.)

I dust lightly twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder (Rep-cal). D3 from supplements can build up in the system and cause problems..so don't overdo it. Its best that the chameleon gets most of the D3 as a result of exposure to UVB.

Twice a month, I dust with a vitamin powder (herptivite) that has a beta carotene source of vitamin A. Beta carotene (prOformed) vitamin A can not build up in the system...but there is controversy as to whether any/all chameleons can convert it...so some people give them a little prEformed vitamin A. Excess prEformed vitamin A may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD.

I gutload/feed the crickets, roaches, superworms a wide assortment of greens (dandelions, collards, kale, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, zucchini, sweet red pepper, sweet potato, celery leaves, etc.).

BONE HEALTH: Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are 4 of the main players in bone health and need to be in balance. The above supplementing, gutloading/feeding of the insects, temperatures, UVB lighting, etc. seems to keep them in balance....at least, my chameleons seem to live long healthy lives.

Hope I haven't missed anything! Sorry if its overpowering!

Background information: I have been keeping/breeding/hatching/raising chameleons (and numerous other reptiles) for over 20 years now.

Here are some articles that might help too...
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200604210...d.Calcium.html
http://chameleonnews.com/?page=article&id=102
http://adcham.com/
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/
http://chameleonnews.com/?page=article&id=109

If you have any other questions, just ask. This is a great forum with lots of knowledgeable people to help!